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by Kalama
Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:03 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: First and Third Noble Truth
Replies: 530
Views: 11714

Re: First and Third Noble Truth

... stated in the 3rd Noble Truth which is realized by the fruit of Arahantship. Though the application of Jhana is said to cease pain , it is ... you are saying that the commentaries say that an arahant committed suicide. If this is what you are saying then I think you are wrong. Take ...
by chownah
Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:03 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: First and Third Noble Truth
Replies: 530
Views: 11714

Re: First and Third Noble Truth

Hi Chowna, "This seems to be saying or at least implying that arahants do indeed suffer and this seems to mean that arahants have not attained ... think you are saying that the commentaries say that an arahant committed suicide. If this is what you are saying then I think you are wrong. Take a ...
by chownah
Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:50 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: First and Third Noble Truth
Replies: 530
Views: 11714

Re: First and Third Noble Truth

... the information requested. The buddha answers by just saying that the suicide was performed faultlessly leaving the movements after death to conjecture. ... contempate why the guy killed himself if he was an arahant....with arahants being beyond dukkha as they say.....or is strong pain stronger ...
by chownah
Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:13 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: First and Third Noble Truth
Replies: 530
Views: 11714

Re: First and Third Noble Truth

... can an Arahant feel that detached? By being mindful and liberated. Some arahants committed suicide due to severe pains, so indeed pain can be intense. This was an important early issue ...
by daverupa
Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:02 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: First and Third Noble Truth
Replies: 530
Views: 11714

Re: First and Third Noble Truth

... can an Arahant feel that detached? By being mindful and liberated. Some arahants committed suicide due to severe pains, so indeed pain can be intense. This was an important early issue ...
by daverupa
Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:38 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Why has annihilationism proliferated Theravada so profusely?
Replies: 392
Views: 5515

Re: Why has annihilationism proliferated Theravada so profus

... prospect of death? That too. The one issue that can be vexing here is arahants committing suicide due to extreme & unrelenting pain, but that's another thread.
by Bhikkhu Pesala
Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:54 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Did the Buddha make mistakes?
Replies: 20
Views: 825

Re: Did the Buddha make mistakes?

Have you come across the sutta where some monks commit suicide or have themselves killed because they practiced the foulness of the ... his habitual way of speech, uttered without any pride, contempt, or malice. Arahants are never deluded or unmindful. That is what we call a mistake, when ...
by Mkoll
Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:07 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... lust. That is what I think makes most sense. So you think male arahants still find certain female human bodies attractive ("like" ... he endured, but unperturbed. And the most flagrant cases of all, the suicide of the arahats. Would they commit suicide if they had no dislike ...
by Modus.Ponens
Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:39 am
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... lust. That is what I think makes most sense. So you think male arahants still find certain female human bodies attractive ("like" ... he endured, but unperturbed. And the most flagrant cases of all, the suicide of the arahats. Would they commit suicide if they had no dislike ...
by SarathW
Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:27 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Is There Really a Practice for Dying Consciously?
Replies: 8
Views: 273

Re: Is There Really a Practice for Dying Consciously?

... Anything about it in the Suttas? the only occasions in the suttas of arahants killing themselves is related to intense pain , and they used standard ... Suicide+Arahant#p208591
by culaavuso
Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:17 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)
Replies: 19
Views: 1032

Re: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

... it makes no sense when interpreted in a literal way, then why not interpret it in a figurative way? The knife is a symbol of wisdom. And attaining arahantship is psychological death. They seem to love this sort of word-play, but it is often impossible to translate. In this interpretation, how would ...
by martinfrank
Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:02 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Is Depression Caused by Karma?
Replies: 26
Views: 599

Re: Is Depression Caused by Karma?

... actions, from this life and from former lives. If we would be all Arahants, we wouldn't suffer from depression, but we aren't and we do suffer ... drop into a bottomless hole. Depression has a high mortality through suicide, particularly in young men, old men, gay boys. It is a serious condition ...
by Mkoll
Fri May 30, 2014 6:20 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... pleasures. I don't nitpick about "7 days and ordain", "suicide of the arahant", or "32 marks of the great man". Those ... tangle. Those whose passion, aversion, & ignorance have faded away, arahants, their effluents ended: for them the tangle's untangled. Where ...
by Denisa
Fri May 30, 2014 12:09 am
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... Can you explain how the fact that the Buddha allowing arahats to commit suicide is not a contradiction? If you interpret the dhamma rigidly, this ... to Nibbana would serve as a bad example for the Sangha, but these arahants were in agonizing pain. Would it not be uncompassionate to deny ...
by robertk
Thu May 29, 2014 11:42 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... Can you explain how the fact that the Buddha allowing arahats to commit suicide is not a contradiction? If you interpret the dhamma rigidly, this ... to Nibbana would serve as a bad example for the Sangha, but these arahants were in agonizing pain. Would it not be uncompassionate to deny ...
by Modus.Ponens
Thu May 29, 2014 7:05 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... Can you explain how the fact that the Buddha allowing arahats to commit suicide is not a contradiction? If you interpret the dhamma rigidly, this ... to Nibbana would serve as a bad example for the Sangha, but these arahants were in agonizing pain. Would it not be uncompassionate to deny ...
by waterchan
Thu May 29, 2014 6:07 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... Can you explain how the fact that the Buddha allowing arahats to commit suicide is not a contradiction? If you interpret the dhamma rigidly, this ... to Nibbana would serve as a bad example for the Sangha, but these arahants were in agonizing pain. Would it not be uncompassionate to deny ...
by waterchan
Wed May 28, 2014 9:03 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... so much physical pain that the Buddha gave them permission to commit suicide, which was allowable since they were arahants and had nothing left to achieve.
by Modus.Ponens
Wed May 28, 2014 7:38 pm
Forum: Open Dhamma
Topic: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment
Replies: 989
Views: 43221

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainmen

... Teachings of the Buddha, he states on page 237 that non-returners and arahants are quite capable of doing such things as sleeping with prostitutes, ... That makes an interesting "contradiction". Aproval of suicide, with the result of suicide, is an offense that entails expulsion ...
by waterchan
Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:34 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: What is the 10 precepts an arahant has to follow?
Replies: 22
Views: 468

Re: What is the 10 precepts an arahant has to follow?

villkorkarma wrote:Its logic that the arhant cannot be killed or do something that will kill him after he done something whatever it will be that he does


Not really, some arahants were murdered and some committed suicide. They're arahants not X-Men...

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