Why I Hate Buddhism

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Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby creekist » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:48 pm

Although I am a Buddhist (not by choice, I agree with Buddhism, because that's just what I think, but I didn't become a Buddhist because I "loved" Buddhism and became a follower, but rather, was a Buddhist, because my beliefs matched those of Buddhism's), I hate Buddhism, I hate Buddhism because:

1) It is a difficult religion (I know guys all know that).

2) It's full of hypocrites.

3) Nearly NO ONE, attains the goal of Buddhism, and when they do, it seems to be some guy from OUTSIDE of the Buddhist religion.

Personally: Kind of a liberal religious orientation, much inspired by Daniel Ingram and related communities.

Religious Background:

Born in NY, moved to Hong Kong at age 4, encountered Buddhism when in Thailand for vacation one week. Bought the book "Liberating Insight" by Frits Koster, quickly became a Learner after practicing Vipassana, ceased the practice of Meditation but regardless continued to make progress.

Life goes swimmingly, then after making some threats my high school decides to kick me out for fear that I will kill my fellow students and my self, I relocate to Philadelphia and live with my cousins, my cousins kick me out, I live with my Mom.

Near the end of my sophomore year I quite literally, very closely attain "Nibbana" or "Stream Entry" or some "Point of No Return", but fearing my extinction I "chicken out" and neglect the path. In other words I avoid the training.

I've been avoiding the training ever since.

Finally I move to California and finish high school there. Was miserable the entire time, believed I had caused a schism in the Dharma Overground, what made it worse was that I thought they were genuinely Enlightened, thought of apologizing, deeply worried about hell (yet ironically didn't know I was a Sekha).

Come end of Senior year I go to college in the Fall. It is as if I was taken out of Niraya and placed in Heaven.

My mood changes entirely, I am calm, lust-less, happy, nearly irritation-free, outgoing, have many friends, one of the best programmers in my graduating class, one of the better dancers in the breaking club, well liked by my teachers and peers.

Anyways that's about it, I look forward to trolling/discussing the Dhamma with you.

Be well my friends!
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby creekist » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:57 pm

One of my "out there" beliefs that is sure to draw fire is that I attribute various stages of realization to "non Buddhist" people.

This includes, but is not limited to, people I've met in my daily life, some random historical figures, currently famous figures, random people etc.

The odd part is that not many people in Buddhism attain the goal of Buddhism, yet outside of it there seem to be plenty of people.

Some people to whom I give this honour:

Aron Ralston, Henry David Thoreau, possibly Nanavira, possibly Luangpor Teean.

But I might exclude the likes of Sayadaw U Pandita, Luang Ta Mahaboowa etc.

Mainly because I don't get a good vibe from them.

A famous of example of this was the DhO, I gave them the honour of being a community of Enlightened people for a long time, until when I realized they weren't (they don't practice Buddhism):

Here's why:

They just aren't.

Basically my analysis goes something like this:

The DhO for the most part, tends to flail around the in the dark, they put forth great effort (I admire them for that), but they put forth effort for the sake of effort.

Now if they put forth effort for the sake of reaching the goal, then they would in no short time reach the goal. But since they don't, I can only conclude that they don't know the way to the end of suffering.

And if they don't know the way to the end of suffering then I can only conclude that they are not sekhas.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:58 pm

creekist wrote:1) It is a difficult religion (I know guys all know that).


If it were easy, everyone would be enlightened and there would be a whole lot less suffering in the world.

2) It's full of hypocrites.


There may be some, but not more so than in other religions, non-religionists, from my experience.

3) Nearly NO ONE, attains the goal of Buddhism, and when they do, it seems to be some guy from OUTSIDE of the Buddhist religion.


Enlightened ones are not likely to go around announcing it or having a tattoo saying they are enlightened; which doesn't mean there are not some out there.

Life goes swimmingly, then after making some threats my high school decides to kick me out for fear that I will kill my fellow students and my self, I relocate to Philadelphia and live with my cousins, my cousins kick me out, I live with my Mom.


Be sure to read the Terms of Service especially number 4.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:00 pm

Welcome creekist, that's quite an introduction!

It might be better to repost your second post in another area, such as the "Open Dhamma" Forum, rather than have it all mixed up with your "Introduction".

:hello:

:anjali:
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby creekist » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:02 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Welcome creekist, that's quite an introduction!

It might be better to repost your second post in another area, such as the "Open Dhamma" Forum, rather than have it all mixed up with your "Introduction".

:hello:

:anjali:
Mike


Wassup dude, thanks.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby creekist » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:05 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
creekist wrote:1) It is a difficult religion (I know guys all know that).


If it were easy, everyone would be enlightened and there would be a whole lot less suffering in the world.

2) It's full of hypocrites.


There may be some, but not more so than in other religions, non-religionists, from my experience.

3) Nearly NO ONE, attains the goal of Buddhism, and when they do, it seems to be some guy from OUTSIDE of the Buddhist religion.


Enlightened ones are not likely to go around announcing it or having a tattoo saying they are enlightened; which doesn't mean there are not some out there.

Life goes swimmingly, then after making some threats my high school decides to kick me out for fear that I will kill my fellow students and my self, I relocate to Philadelphia and live with my cousins, my cousins kick me out, I live with my Mom.


Be sure to read the Terms of Service especially number 4.


Well it's not that they announce it and then I subsequently go and analyze their claims. Rather after having read of some famous Buddhist figures and read the interactions of online Buddhists (in particular on Lioncity) I can only conclude that these guys are fakes. I mean they pretend to be nice, they pretend to be wise, they pretend to whatever.

But inwardly they were just so putrid. It honestly disgusted and worried me a great deal.

About the mental illness thing, don't worry, I'm not mentally ill.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:48 pm

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel!
How long have you been practising?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby creekist » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:37 am

Cittasanto wrote:Welcome to Dhamma Wheel!
How long have you been practising?


Thanks!

I don't practice (I know, embarrassing right?), I originally tried Vipassana a while back and reached the third Nana.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Tyler » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:48 am

In what ways do you reconcile your childhood experience?
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby manas » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:50 am

Hi creekist

i can relate to not finding this a smooth journey, or even pleasant alot of the time. the 'truth hurts', as the saying goes. when we have not accepted it, that is... :x

i learned that getting overly worried about 'levels' and either trying to attain them, or wondering where i was at, was in the end so counter-productive to my actual practice, that i abandoned it, and its a great relief. i don't know what i am now, if anything. :D i guess im just a bloke typing a few words into a computer, ha! so i definitely advise ditching any obsession with 'levels' (I know that in DhO they tend to worry about such things quite abit...)

nice to meet you, hope you dont mind me saying I'm kind of glad to find someone else whose dhamma practice has been of the painful variety...makes me feel less alone :)

metta

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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby creekist » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:27 pm

Hi guys, I said I was a Sekha (I'm not, that's a lie). I also said I attained the third nana. I didn't.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:55 am

creekist wrote:Hi guys, I said I was a Sekha (I'm not, that's a lie). I also said I attained the third nana. I didn't.


Why did you feel compelled to say those things?
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Alobha » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:56 am

Welcome creekist,
Even in the midst of a storm, people can be kind to each other.

It seems like you had quite some rough times to go through. Please consider getting psychological support from professionals.

Best wishes,
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Bankei » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:30 am

What is a Sekya? and what does DhO mean?

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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby carlosm » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:33 am

I tend to think about the 3rd noble truth, you said that your belief are the same as the buddha, so the important thing is, there's an end to suffering. Whenever I feel like 'hating' buddhism because the practice is getting me nowhere, I think of this, the 3rd noble truth.
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:43 am

Bankei wrote:What is a Sekya?

Do you mean:
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... .htm#sekha
Sekha: a 'noble learner', a disciple in higher training, i.e. one who pursues the 3 kinds of training sikkhā, is one of those 7 kinds of Noble Disciples who have reached one of the 4 supra-mundane paths or the 3 lower fruitions see: ariya-puggala while the one possessed of the 4th fruition, or Arahatta-phala, is called 'one beyond training' asekha lit. 'no more learner'. The worldling puthujjana is called 'neither a noble learner, nor perfected in learning' n'eva-sekha-nāsekha Cf. Pug. 23-25.


Bankei wrote:and what does DhO mean?

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest

:anjali:
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:46 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Bankei wrote:What is a Sekya?

I can't find that word in the thread... Maybe something was edited... :thinking:
Bankei wrote:and what does DhO mean?

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest

:anjali:
Mike

It is above Bens last post and means learner
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby reflection » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:13 pm

Hi Hi!

I would advice you to let go of stages and especially stop projecting them on other people. Buddhism should bring peace, love and happiness by letting go. The more love and happiness you have, the further you've progressed. But all the stages are not to be obsessed on; if you do that, you will not reach them anyway. The way you see them is maybe more as an attainment than a relinquishment. But it is not like this. You get further by throwing things away, not by grasping them. And even than, if you think you are at some stage, don't obsess about it. Who says you are right? As Ajahn Chah said: it's all uncertain. So relax about it. Just mindfully breathe and be kind, that's all you have to do. Nothing to gain, nothing to do. Try applying this and your hate will decrease already. It's an easy training; the path is as difficult as you make it for yourself.

Anyway, welcome!

With metta,
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Tyler » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:50 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Bankei wrote:
Bankei wrote:and what does DhO mean?

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest

:anjali:
Mike


I visited the DhO forum just now. The nature of their posts are very similar to Creekist's initial posts in which they exclaim having achieved certain levels of attainment. Here is an example: A practitioner of three weeks claimed to have attained first Jhana and was lauded for having potentially done so. I did a search for "Sekha" & "Sekya" and didn't find anything (they might spell it differently) as well as for "Nana." It was very common for people to claim they achieved a Nana and get supported for having done so. This is obviously a huge schismatic difference when compared to Theravada and the culture of this forum. Creekist or anyone else coming from such a different background would have no clue that Theravada and this forum work radically different than the DhO. If anything we should be happy and welcoming that anyone coming from those practices found Dhamma Wheel. Many of us here have been on various different paths before coming into Theravada and had a great deal of unlearning and relearning to do when changing traditions. It is good that at Dhamma Wheel we can show and support each other based on the 4 Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path in places that have already been made light by the Buddha and the Dhamma. We are open and capable of understanding the Pali Tipitaka in a way that continues to pay hommage to our roots instead of bastardizing the lineage of the Buddha. The Dhamma is for everyone and we all learn in different ways. Lets show others why we think this tradition is where it is at thru our example.

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel Creekist.

With Metta,
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Re: Why I Hate Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:00 pm

Hi Tyler
DhO have been discussed here, and the Hardcore Movement in general.

Sekha the terms you couldn't find mean a learner; one who is in the course of perfection. as noted above.
Sekya is probably a misspelling.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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