[Citation needed]

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Alobha
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[Citation needed]

Postby Alobha » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:15 pm

I would like a new rule on this forum on how to cite the Buddha and Palicanon sources in general.

Reason for this suggestion: Misinterpreting the buddha or the palikanon and declaring it as true statements are likely to cause much confusion, doubt or anger. While i'm sure that stating misinterpreted statements as true is more of an unintentional mistake, clear rules for citations can prevent much harm for both the reader and the writer.
Citing sources literally also is a good way to get familiar with the sources themselves, which i regard as a positive thing when it comes to the Palicanon.
With that said, i feel that citing rules would be for the benefit of everyone and a good opportunity to train right speech and right effort.

Suggestion on how this rule could look like:

1. Citations should always be given with a link to (an english version of) the sutta. Accesstoinsight is easily accessible. Giving a link to the cited source invites other forum members to find and check out the suttas for themselves.

2. The name of the Sutta should be given / The short code.
Common codes are
DN -> Digha Nikaya
MN -> Majjhima Nikaya
SN -> Samyutta Nikaya
AN -> Anguttara Nikaya
KN -> Khuddaka Nikaya
The exact code for citation is always given in Access to insight at the top of the page.
--> "SN 56.36" Is right above the title of the sutta.

3. Quotes from other teachers, such as Ajahn Chah, the Dalai Lama or Sayagyi U Ba Khin should also only be cited if one can provide a source, too. Since not every text of other teachers might be available online, one should give as much information as possible as on the source. (e.g.: book title, context of the given talk,..)

4. The suttas should only be quoted from literal sources. Figuratively or interpreted statements ("The Buddha said you should love everyone.") should be clearly marked as such (perhaps by adding "[citation needed]" to the statement) or better: avoided in the first place.

Most users already quote their literal sources which is great and has already been very helpful for me on several occasions here. I'd be glad if we could establish some sort of standard for citing sources here. There is no need to accept my suggestion 1:1, but i'd appreciate if there would be any form or rule endorsing citing sources.

Metta,
Alobha

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Zom
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby Zom » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:02 pm

Turn the forum into Wikipedia? :spy:

What for? These are 2 different things.

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tiltbillings
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:27 pm


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Fede
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby Fede » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:46 pm

this worries me - I can show links to 'accesstoinsight' and the suchlike, but I am not learned or well-versed enough to start literally quoting chapter, verse and minutiae as requested....Is this proposal for certain forums only, or is it site-widespread?
I don't lie, and rely on 'thus have I heard'...but sometimes, being immediately unable to locate source is daunting....

I dunno...it seems to wish to separate 'the men from the boys' and might be limiting to those who are minded as I....

Don't get me wrong - I can full well see and appreciate the reasoning behind it.
And FWIW, we require people to quote sources on the Buddhist website I moderate.... but not as stringently, perhaps....
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tiltbillings
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:54 pm


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cooran
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby cooran » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:32 pm

Hello all,

I agree - any mention of ''the Buddha said in a sutta'' or ''the Buddha taught that ..'' must have a link or citation. There seems to me to have been a growth lately on DhammaWheel of unattributed alleged remarks made by the Buddha to support the posters' point of view.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ben
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:56 pm

Greetings Alobha,
In some of our sub-forums we do have as part of the guidelines to provide textual support and citation.
I don't think the style of citation is important.
In other fora I have been involved with, I have sought to have a similar rule implemented to stop people from misrepresenting the Dhamma.
I would be inclined to support your suggestion following more discussion here and on the advice from mod/admin team.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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retrofuturist
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:59 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Kim OHara
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:23 pm

Hi, everyone,
It would be nice if quotes and paraphrases were always well enough documented to be tracked back to their sources - there are lots of good reasons for wanting that, and most of them have been mentioned.
But we must remember that many DW members are new to both Buddhism and the forum when they join, and we want to make them welcome, not intimidate them with rules they don't understand and haven't got the knowledge to be able to follow. In the early stages, just working out how and where to post was a big enough challenge to me, as it often seems to be for others. So let's encourage referencing by all means, but let's not talk about making it compulsory.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:34 pm

CITE! CITE! CITE! CITE!
oh thats abit like fight! fight! :stirthepot:


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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retrofuturist
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:58 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Alobha
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Re: [Citation needed]

Postby Alobha » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:04 pm



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