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Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:48 pm
by Jechbi
I would suggest that members of the mod/admin team refrain from characterizing member posts as possibly just "jokes." From time to time, I have seen it happen that members who were trying to make a valid point from their perspective are told in-thread that it appeared they might just be joking. Here is one example.

I believe the mod/admin team sets the tone for the board. While it is generally positive, there are times when members of the mod/admin team appear to be needlessly dismissive of members. I believe the board would be better served if members of the mod/admin team would take better care not to use ridicule or dismissiveness in their posts.

Thank for listening.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:52 pm
by Jhana4
I've only been here a few weeks. I've had posts of mine moved several times. I didn't like that. I also contacted the moderators about it. I have not found the moderators to be disrespectful to the members and I felt that they have taken me seriously.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:58 pm
by PeterB
Just as we thought it safe to go back to the water the meta discussion sharks are circling again.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:24 pm
by Fede
I take it that was a joke Peter.

Just to clarify, of course..... :tongue:

I think sometimes people can take themselves too seriously, so that actually theuir utter seriousness is actually more laughable than a joke.

I am a Mod on three other forums.

it's a thankless task, and I'll tell you something else, jechbi:
Open criticism of Moderators is extremely bad form. Any critical comments should be confined to private messaging and relayed to the Moderators in question, away from forum discussion.
In my neck-of-the-woods, it's very bad etiquette to dis a mod in public.....

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:53 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings,
PeterB wrote:Just as we thought it safe to go back to the water the meta discussion sharks are circling again.
Just to clarify, it's fine for it to be done via the Suggestion Box... because having it done here means that the topic in question isn't being derailed in the process.

Arguably your post is more a case of "meta-discussion" than this topic itself. :tongue:

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:04 pm
by PeterB
Then please feel free to remove it Retro... :smile: :anjali:

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:09 pm
by Mawkish1983
If Alex (in your example) had/has a problem, it would be Alex's responsibility to raise that with the mods.

Not yours.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:15 pm
by tiltbillings
Jechbi wrote:I would suggest that members of the mod/admin team refrain from characterizing member posts as possibly just "jokes." From time to time, I have seen it happen that members who were trying to make a valid point from their perspective are told in-thread that it appeared they might just be joking. Here is one example.
Who determines if it a valid point? But I engaged with Alex for pages, so I obviously did take what he said seriously, though significantly and seriously wrong. Also, quite seriously, at that time of the naughty post you linked, it was unclear if it was not an elaborate joke. It would not have been the first time being lead down a path by jokester like that..
I believe the mod/admin team sets the tone for the board. While it is generally positive, there are times when members of the mod/admin team appear to be needlessly dismissive of members. I believe the board would be better served if members of the mod/admin team would take better care not to use ridicule or dismissiveness in their posts.

Thank for listening.
The reality is that moderators are human beings; hardly perfect. Scour the forum for my bad doings.The above is, which I suspect, will be the first of many examples, but to what real end? I am afraid that you as a moral beacon have been seriously compromised by your negative blogging. But lay on, MacDuff.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:18 pm
by tiltbillings
Mawkish1983 wrote:If Alex (in your example) had/has a problem, it would be Alex's responsibility to raise that with the mods.

Not yours.
He could have done that, or other forum members could have - had they found fault - used the "report" function or PMs, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:20 pm
by Mawkish1983
tiltbillings wrote:...which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Of course :)

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:22 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings Jechbi,
Jechbi wrote:I would suggest that members of the mod/admin team refrain from characterizing member posts as possibly just "jokes." From time to time, I have seen it happen that members who were trying to make a valid point from their perspective are told in-thread that it appeared they might just be joking. Here is one example.
I don't find this example particularly convincing to be honest.

Tilt's account is factually correct. Tilt consulted with DW staff at the time, as to whether we thought Alex was genuine in his argument, or stringing us along. We thought he was probably serious, but no one was totally certain.
Jechbi wrote:I believe the board would be better served if members of the mod/admin team would take better care not to use ridicule or dismissiveness in their posts.
... and through proliferation, assumption, suspicion and distrust, you have made the massive leap from what is observed (and actually transpires) through to a trademark negative conclusion. Whilst your statement is true as far as it goes (yes, it's good to not ridicule or dismiss people, of course...), I believe the inference that the mod/admin group are prone to these behaviours is in error.

Jechbi, I can't help feeling that you're grasping to find evidence to support your pre-determined conspiratorial conclusions, rather than looking at the evidence that actually exists and drawing a sensible and rational conclusion from that. You seem to approach these discussions from the POV of wanting to prove your pre-existing theory, and then desperately hunting around the Internet to find evidence to support them. Personally I don't think that's a sound way to facilitate healthy and collaborative Dhamma discussion, do you?

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:31 pm
by andre9999
retrofuturist wrote:Tilt consulted with DW staff at the time, as to whether we thought Alex was genuine in his argument, or stringing us along. We thought he was probably serious, but no one was totally certain.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I wonder that when I end up in a discussion with Alex too (no offense Alex). :)

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:15 am
by Kim OHara
So Jechbi's *best* example of a mod making a "dismissive" comment to a member was a comment made (a) four months ago and (b) in genuine puzzlement?
I think that is more evidence, if any is needed, that the mods are generally fair and polite.
:shrug:
Kim

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:57 am
by Jechbi
Well this hasn't worked out very well so far.

To those who have criticized me for creating this suggestion, please be aware that DW invited me to do so. To those who say it is bad form, I disagree. If a member has a legitimate concern, from their perspective, about something occuring that appears to be counterproductive to the goals of the board, I don't see why a member should not be able to discuss it openly and respectfully.

And no, Kim, this is not my "best" example, it is just one example. I also experienced this type of response personally, and I've seen this type of response in other mod/admin posts from time to time. But I haven't kept a catalogue. I don't think it would be correct to fill the suggestion box with numerous examples, because then, based on experience, I might be accused of being "obsessed."
retrofuturist wrote:Jechbi, I can't help feeling that you're grasping to find evidence to support your pre-determined conspiratorial conclusions, rather than looking at the evidence that actually exists and drawing a sensible and rational conclusion from that. You seem to approach these discussions from the POV of wanting to prove your pre-existing theory, and then desperately hunting around the Internet to find evidence to support them. Personally I don't think that's a sound way to facilitate healthy and collaborative Dhamma discussion, do you?
Retro, that's not what I did. I accepted your invitation to create a suggestion-box entry with what I view as a legitimate suggestion, based on things I have witnessed happening on this board, and based on my personal experience. I thought this would be an opportunity to start fresh and follow your advice for how to discuss these things. I didn't expect that you'd once again bring out your “consiracy theory” dismissal strategy.
tiltbillings wrote:He could have done that, or other forum members could have - had they found fault - used the "report" function or PMs, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Yes, Tilt, but the problem is that when I use the report function, I'm met with additional ridicule, criticism and dismissiveness. I'm not saying this to be negative. I'm saying it as a statement of what I have directly experienced.
tiltbillings wrote:Who determines if it a valid point? But I engaged with Alex for pages, so I obviously did take what he said seriously, though significantly and seriously wrong. Also, quite seriously, at that time of the naughty post you linked, it was unclear if it was not an elaborate joke. It would not have been the first time being lead down a path by jokester like that..
It doesn't matter if it's a valid point or not. As a member of the mod/admin team, I feel you would better serve the goals of the board by refraining from making in-thread, dismissive statements like that.

One other thing to note: Having made this suggestion at DW's invitation, I now find that the tables are turned, and I am on the defensive, answering further criticism about myself. This, too, has been an ongoing pattern, and it is one of the things I have been concerned about.

I apologize to those who find this exchange offensive. I didn't think the discussion would go in this direction.

p.s., would someone please enable me to post my sig again? I still don't have access. Thank you.

Re: Taking members seriously

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:01 am
by Mawkish1983
:roll: