Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

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Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby contemplans » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:38 pm

Does anyone know of a good comparative book on meditation and/or mystical experiences? A book that would take the different traditions of the world and try to compare them? I was just reading St Teresa's Interior Castle when her description of the Fourth Mansion seemed very similar to the Buddha's description of the Second Jhana. She uses the description of water for numerous levels of prayer, and the Buddha uses it for the first three jhanas. Obviously these two people were not exposed to either of their teachings, yet they coincide in a very similar way. Further reading would be interesting. Any recommendations are appreciated.


Interior Castle
Fourth Mansion, Ch. 2

"To make the matter clearer, let us imagine we see two fountains with basins which fill with water. I can find no simile more appropriate than water by which to explain spiritual things, as I am very ignorant and have poor wits to help me. Besides, I love this element so much that I have studied it more attentively than other things. God, Who is so great, so wise, has doubtless hidden secrets in all things He created, which we should greatly benefit by knowing, as those say who understand such matters. Indeed, I believe that in each smallest creature He has made, though it be but a tiny ant, there are more wonders than can be comprehended. These two basins are filled in different ways; the one with water from a distance flowing into it through many pipes and waterworks, while the other basin is built near the source of the spring itself and fills quite noiselessly. If the fountain is plentiful, like the one we speak of, after the basin is full the water overflows in a great stream which flows continually. No machinery is needed here, nor does the water run through aqueducts.

"Such is the difference between the two kinds of prayer. The water running through the aqueducts resembles sensible devotion, which is obtained by meditation. We gain it by our thoughts, by meditating on created things, and by the labour of our minds; in short, it is the result of our endeavours, and so makes the commotion I spoke of, while profiting the soul. The other fountain, like divine consolations, receives the water from the source itself, which signifies God: as usual, when His Majesty wills to bestow on us any supernatural favours, we experience the greatest peace, calm, and sweetness in the inmost depths of our being; I know neither where nor how.

"This joy is not, like earthly happiness, at once felt by the heart; after gradually filling it to the brim, the delight overflows throughout all the mansions and faculties, until at last it reaches the body. Therefore, I say it arises from God and ends in ourselves, for whoever experiences it will find that the whole physical part of our nature shares in this delight and sweetness. While writing this I have been thinking that the verse ‘Dilatasti cor meum,’ (Thou hast enlarged my heart, Ps. 118:32), declares that the heart is enlarged. This joy does not appear to me to originate in the heart, but in some more interior part and, as it were, in the depths of our being. I think this must be the centre of the soul, as I have since learnt and will explain later on. I discover secrets within us which often fill me with astonishment: how many more must there be unknown to me! O my Lord and my God! how stupendous is Thy grandeur! We are like so many foolish peasant lads: we think we know something of Thee, yet it must be comparatively nothing, for there are profound secrets even in ourselves of which we know nothing. I say ‘comparatively nothing’ in proportion with all the secrets hidden within Thee, yet how great are Thy mysteries that we are acquainted with and can learn even by the study of such of Thy works as we see!"



DN 2:

"Furthermore, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters and remains in the second jhana: rapture and pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought and evaluation — internal assurance. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of composure. Just like a lake with spring-water welling up from within, having no inflow from the east, west, north, or south, and with the skies supplying abundant showers time and again, so that the cool fount of water welling up from within the lake would permeate and pervade, suffuse and fill it with cool waters, there being no part of the lake unpervaded by the cool waters; even so, the monk permeates ... this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of composure. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born of composure."
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:53 pm

I don't know of a book to suggest but I think the most common point of view of Buddhists would be that the mystical experiences described by contemplatives of other spiritual traditions are in fact Jhana.

Teachings on Jhana were well established before the Buddha's time, if the Buddha hadn't realised that Jhana was not the answer his teachings would have been unremarkable.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:19 am

who is that fella who puts his face on the front cover? ken wilber?
he done some research into this.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby daverupa » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:45 am

Hmm...

Buddhist contemplative:
sila --> satipatthana --> jhana { --> dispassion, cessation, liberation}

Xian contemplative:
sila (?) --> ??? --> jhana (??) { --> god/unity/soul}

(Brahmin contemplative, ca. 450 BCE:
sila (?) --> Upaniṣad-bhavana/?? --> arūpa jhāna (!) { --> god/unity/soul})
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby Viscid » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:21 am

Cittasanto wrote:who is that fella who puts his face on the front cover?

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch& ... +lama+book
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby ground » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:30 am

contemplans wrote:Does anyone know of a good comparative book on meditation and/or mystical experiences? A book that would take the different traditions of the world and try to compare them?


What's the point of comparing fabrications? Just to add one's own to those of others, right?

Kind regards
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby contemplans » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:29 pm

TMingyur wrote:
contemplans wrote:Does anyone know of a good comparative book on meditation and/or mystical experiences? A book that would take the different traditions of the world and try to compare them?


What's the point of comparing fabrications? Just to add one's own to those of others, right?

Kind regards


The path is fabrication. I wish to compare them to get different perspectives, just as one would ask many teachers about a problem to compare the feedback, and then make wise choices.
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby vitellius » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:53 pm

contemplans wrote:Does anyone know of a good comparative book on meditation and/or mystical experiences?


I believe that a good book on this topic wasn't written yet :)

Some books by Roger Walsh are not bad:
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tb ... alsh&btnG=

You may also like to check some books by E. Underhill ("Mysticism"), D.T. Suzuki ("Mysticism, Christian and Buddhist"), Daniel Goleman ("Variety of Meditative Experiences"), Mircea Eliade (Yoga) and Charles Tart.

PS Indian comparative classic is translated in "Reconciling Yogas" by Christopher K. Chapple.
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby contemplans » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:21 pm

Thanks! :smile:
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby Viscid » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:41 am

I love my 'Essential Writings of Christian Mysticism' book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Writing ... 0812974212

Though I'd assume you already have it.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby contemplans » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:45 am

Viscid wrote:I love my 'Essential Writings of Christian Mysticism' book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Writing ... 0812974212

Though I'd assume you already have it.


I actually just checked it out from the library. Apparently the author wrote another huge book which is mentioned in the intro. This one is a shortened version, I guess. The content looks very interesting. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby Viscid » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:28 am

contemplans wrote: The content looks very interesting.


Simone Weil :heart: :heart:
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Comparative Book on Meditation and/or Mystical Experiences

Postby daverupa » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:34 am

The Golden Bough is a classic in this vein.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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