Heavens to betsy

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:31 pm

Agreed, Christopher :heart:

Though I'm not overly attached to it, being renamed with a dharma name was significant for me. It was a symbolic outer change that I took to heart. I use my dharma name as I do to remind myself of my precepts and vows. In vajrayana they often give you a name of something you should aspire to. People outside of my religion might think that's a weird thing! But it's not weird to me at all. But these are symbols and have the meaning that we apply to them.
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:44 pm

I would like to add that I get upset when I see blatantly obvious scams, like ridiculously expensive "Big Mind Weekend Seminars" and stuff.

:buddha2:
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby cooran » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:32 pm

Hello Drolma,

I get upset when I see blatantly obvious scams, like ridiculously expensive "Big Mind Weekend Seminars" and stuff.

Would this be a good opportunity to look at your own mind states when you think of this? .... shades of dosa and māna
among others?

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:38 pm

Hi Chris,

Conceit and hate? I'm lost...

I appreciate your feedback. I hope I'm not rattling on too much today.

My understanding of what I said about dharma names is that you're given a name with a quality that you're lacking, basically. So it's something I should be trying to develop or cultivate.

:namaste:

edited to add: The name you're given can either be a quality you already exhibit or a quality you need to develop. But the teacher doesn't tell you which it is. So in my case, it was logical to assume that it's something I need to be thinking about and working on developing :smile:
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Dan74 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:05 am

Somehow I tend to think that Big Mind Seminars, for all their cost and hype, may be a touch more useful that the coffin ritual. But maybe it's just me..

My understanding is that Genpo Roshi was trying to reach out to a particular sort of public with the Big Mind show. And quite possibly for entirely noble motives. I certainly haven't seen any evidence of him driving around in RR and buying big holiday houses.

And as far as I know regular practice at his centre in Salt Lake City is still very accessible for the average Joe wishing to take "the slow and steady" path.

In any case, Big Mind only claims to show a glimpse and serve to entice people to take up practice in earnest.

As for the coffin ritual, yes, if the person involved takes it very seriously and deeply, then it can be somewhat transformative perhaps. Still quite a bit of work tends to be needed to achieve transformation. Sometimes a person has already done a lot of work and a ritual can seal that work and imbue it with confidence and luck. On it's own, it pretty feeble though...

Reminded me of this :

The later Middle Ages saw the growth of considerable abuses, such as the unrestricted sale of indulgences by professional "pardoners"[3] (quaestores in Latin), who were sent to collect contributions to the project. In many cases the preaching of these, out of ignorance or shrewdness, went far beyond dogmatic teachings; some of them even dared to promise that the damned would be released from hell. Permission began to be granted to Catholic kings and princes, particularly on the occasion of Crusades, to retain for themselves a rather considerable part of the alms collected for the gaining of indulgences. The most well-known and debated question is the indulgence granted for building the new St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.[29]


from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:39 pm

Dear Dan,

I was unaware that Big Mind was taken seriously by buddhists. That being the case, my comment was insensitive and I apologize :heart:

I thought Bid Mind essentially promised enlightenment in a weekend ?? I've only read a little about it.
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Dan74 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:34 am

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Dear Dan,

I was unaware that Big Mind was taken seriously by buddhists. That being the case, my comment was insensitive and I apologize :heart:

I thought Bid Mind essentially promised enlightenment in a weekend ?? I've only read a little about it.


No offense taken, Drolma. :heart:

I don't know much about Big Mind myself, but I do know Genpo Roshi is considered to be a serious teacher. There is too much hype about Big Mind which is certainly disconcerting to many in the Zen community, but I don't think he promised "enlightenment in a weekend" although maybe there was a mention of this by K.Wilber or someone else. The intention of the Big Mind tehnique as I understand it is to loosen the identification with the "small I" and experience a little of the working of the "Big Mind." But it's like dipping the toe in and likely it won't work for everyone.

Personally I am quiet skeptical, but I guess it is beneficial to some extent. And I wouldn't go as far as calling it a hoax because for all I know Genpo's intentions are honourable. But I may be wrong.

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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:11 am

my time in zen was with an old japanese master, we once asked him about Genpo and his responce was "he's the deluded amongst the deluded" he thought Genpo (or at least this method) was a joke.
this isnt the only critisism i've heard of Genpo from zen masters either
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:13 am

oh and i believe the flyer we showed my teacher had Genpo promising enlightenment in 90mins.... maybe it takes a weekend now?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Heavens to betsy

Postby Dan74 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:28 am

He may well be right. I wouldn't know. I do know that he is a dharma heir to Maezumi Roshi, who while not without faults, was considered to be a serious teacher who left a solid legacy (Bernie Glassman, Joko Beck and Daido Loori to name a few). As for the flyer, I'd be interested to see. Sometimes students also get overenthusiastic about their teacher and his methods. What I read Genpo himself write about Big Mind was not so outrageous.

:shrug:

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