Minding my own business

[thornbush]

As the title suggests...
Where do we draw the line on that? Where do we not draw the line on that?

Opinions?

[Fede]

I'm getting a feeling of deja vu......

For me, to witness something directly, which seems to contravene one or more of the 5 precepts, is sufficient to warrant my poking my nose in where it might be both unwanted and unwelcome.

"For Evil to triumph, it is sufficient that good men do nothing".

(Attributed to Edmund Burke.)

Can't stand by and watch, I'm afraid......

[genkaku]

Dear thornbush -- Can you describe what, exactly, is NOT your business?

[appicchato]

For me, to witness something directly, which seems to contravene one or more of the 5 precepts, is sufficient to warrant my poking my nose in where it might be both unwanted and unwelcome.

Considering the ways of the world, that's one TALL order you've carved for yourself there Alexandra...

[Fede]

Bhante, tell me about it!!

Fortunately, I do not personally encounter anything major or life-threatening at first-hand, though I am painfully aware many do.... but small beginnings... ripples spread. That's all I can do. Weed a small garden.

[Jechbi]

Opinions?

I think we draw the line in terms of wise conduct that tends to be conducive for liberation. Of course we're not always going to know what that conduct is, so we just have to do our best.

But for example: If I witness a person in the grocery store physically beating his 3-year-old son, then it's my business. Out of compassion for both of them, I have to step in and intervene so that the child is not seriously hurt. If I decide it's none of my business, that is not conducive for liberation, because through inaction in that moment I forego an opportunity to develop parami, and I become a participant in the abuse by enabling it through unwise tolerance of violence. In a sense, by not "acting" I am still acting out of fear by suppressing my impulse to want to help and finding excuses not to do so.

On the other hand, if I witness a person in the grocery store scolding his 3-year-old son in a manner that I personally deem inappropriate, or not scolding a 3-year-old whom I believe should be scolded, it's none of my business. Out of compassion for both of them, I have to refrain from stepping in to intervene, because the result is likely to be an argument with the father and confusion for the young boy. Basically, I would just be trying to impose "my" standards of behavior on someone else. And even if it's true that I would handle the situation better than that person, it's none of my business.

fwiw

[David N. Snyder]

I suppose there might be some exceptions, but in general:

When it impinges on someone's peace, well-being, happiness, etc.

[Ngawang Drolma.]

Daka Thorny, please feel free to mind my business.

I take everything on a case-by case basis and never say anything about other people's kids.

[genkaku]

Daka Thorny, please feel free to mind my business.

I take everything on a case-by case basis and never say anything about other people's kids.

Or pets, I hope.

[Ngawang Drolma.]

Pets too! Seriously!

[thornbush]

Once, many many years ago, whilst I was working part time in a shopping complex, a husband and wife came over to my apparel brand counter and started shouting abusive words at her, then took her by her hair and slapped her continuously like it was her annual tight slap day and dragged her away. I called on security and they were led out of the complex and the man had to be dealt with by 3 guards and he was abusive to them too.
My business?

What of people who tell you that you're a precept breaker for not being a vegetarian and that your pet should also be one? Their business?
My business to remind them that it is none of theirs?

[Ben]

Hi Thornbush

Your male customer was assaulting another and where I come from that is a criminal offence. Should we step in to protect the weak or vulnerable? Absolutely!
Were you right to call security and get the customer off the shopping complex property? For sure. I would have done it myself.

As for being publically accused of being a 'precept breaker' for not being vegetarian, then:
- You are not in breach of any precepts by consuming meat. There are a couple of technicalities but for the purpose of this argument lets say that you did not see the animal being killed or induce someone to kill on your behalf. The person who accused you of being a 'precept-breaker' is ignorant of the Buddhadhamma. Is it your business to inform this person that they are wrong? Perhaps in a highly charged emotional situation you could calmly ask the person to point out in the Tipitaka where the Buddha says that the consumption of meat is in breach of the precepts. That in itself may silence your erroneous friend.
Metta

Ben

[pink_trike]

For me, to witness something directly, which seems to contravene one or more of the 5 precepts, is sufficient to warrant my poking my nose in where it might be both unwanted and unwelcome.

Considering the ways of the world, that's one TALL order you've carved for yourself there Alexandra...

Indeed it is, but how is working with circumstances not practice?

[appicchato]

Indeed it is, but how is working with circumstances not practice?

Working with circumstances and 'poking my nose in' don't quite equate...to me...especially where other people are concerned...

[BubbaBuddhist]

In re vegetarian pets: Thorny, you should not take e-sangha chat room too seriously.

J

[Ben]

In re vegetarian pets: Thorny, you should not take e-sangha chat room too seriously.

J

Indeed. Some people, like Vets, are qualified to give an opinion. While others who voice an opinion may just be a bored opinionated ignoramus which isn't a qualification for anything except as person to be ignored.
Kind regards

Ben

[BubbaBuddhist]

You musta been eavesdropping last night Ben.

Anyway, there was advocation of feeding cats a vegan diet, and I lambasted the parties involved; trying to enforce human morality on animals is just ridiculous. I'm a vegetarian; my cats, being carnivores, eat meat, my frogs, also carnivores, eat worms. I no more expect them to be vegetarians than I expect them to follow the Four Noble Truths. There are websites with specious arguments that cats can subsist on a vegan diet, but there is also a very large number of cats who have become blind, crippled and died because well-meaning vegans tried to raise their cats as vegans.

Arghh, don't get me started.

J

[Ben]

No John, I wasn't evesdropping!
I'm just all too familiar with the personality type of the fundamentalist vegetarian.
How is Oreo going?
We lost one of our greyhounds, our beloved Blaze about six weeks ago. It broke my heart.
Metta

Ben

[BubbaBuddhist]

Oreo is doing great; she made a complete recovery. So sorry to hear about your dog, I know that is a heartbreaking loss.

J