Head scarves

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Head scarves

Postby Leon-nl » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:10 pm

In many countries, head scarves (mainly islamic) are a big issue. My opinion is, that at home and in the street, everybody should wear what he/she wants, but public services should be free of any religious symbols. I wonder if anyone has an idea, what the Buddha would have said about this issue? Do we have texts that can shine a light on this issue?
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Re: Head scarves

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:24 pm

Buddhists are not required to wear any form of identifying clothing (unless they're monks, of course), but I don't think that the Buddha would have looked down on such practices or declared them to be unwholesome.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Head scarves

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:40 am

The Buddhist teachings are flexible and allow any type of clothing for whatever is pertinent to the specific culture. Lay people are often described as "clothed in white" as opposed to the brighter colors of the monastics.

There is actually one mention of head scarves in the Suttas. The brahmin lady Verahaccaani invites Ven. Udaayii to a meal. She was wearing sandals and covering her head and asked Ven. Udaayii to instruct her in Dhamma. He refused since she was wearing sandals and covering her head. The next day she prepares him a meal and uncovers her head and this time Ven. Udaayii instructs her in the Dhamma.
(SN 35.133)

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html

Apparently at this time period on the Indian sub-continent, it was considered disrespectful to cover your head around others, especially teachers.
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Re: Head scarves

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:44 am

I wouldn't have a problem with it if men of the same religion were also required to cover their heads to the same degree, because only women are required to do so it's an oppression of women issue.

I don't think the Buddha would have found that wholesome.
"Whenever we feel that we are definitely right, so much so that we refuse to open up to anything or anybody else, right there we are wrong. It becomes wrong view. When suffering arises, where does it arise from? The cause is wrong view, the fruit of that being suffering. If it was right view it wouldn't cause suffering." - Ajahn Chah
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Head scarves

Postby Hanzze » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:01 am

Thinking on how he took care to protect woman form his disiples which are not free of greed, I would not think that he would have seen such things as unwholesome.

I guess it is more that modern man does not like apparence of virtue and moral protection as well as modern men often does not understand how defilments are acting if there is a good soil for ripping. Wired world today.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Head scarves

Postby Hanzze » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:17 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Apparently at this time period on the Indian sub-continent, it was considered disrespectful to cover your head around others, especially teachers.

I guess that might mis that at this time there have been less woman being disiples. I would wonder if woman generally haven't covered as most as possible as well as it has been seen as a sign of respect.

To cover ones head is still a sign of disrespect all over the world in sphares of virtue people but it is still a thing that touches more the male side. Such things as a hat have differing meanings (actually mostly a sign to lift one self) to something that is a cover to cause no shame.

Among monks of "old school" it is still usuall to cover the lower part of the face with parts of the robe while speaking with somebody for example.

The rules not to teach somebody Dhamma if wearing a hat/turban or having covered the head (face?) has to do with the need of lowering one self before being able to get the Dhamma not as an additional weapon and should saveguard the respect regarding Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha. One might also see clearly to whom one is teaching.

Approaching a Bhikkhu and cover what ever can cause shame seems to me rather an very wholesome and respectful act. Cover on self in public to cause no shame is how ever a virtuose act, even today the tendency is very contrary.

How ever, enforced vitures are not conducive as well as inspirations of letting go of cultural heritage and virtue, especial if one is not aware of common defilments of "different" people.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Head scarves

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:23 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Apparently at this time period on the Indian sub-continent, it was considered disrespectful to cover your head around others, especially teachers.

I understand this (from the rules of training) to be about humbling oneself to the Dhamma. remember the young novice sitting on King Asokas thrown to teach the Dhamma?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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