Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

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Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu May 28, 2009 8:57 am

Just some observations I'd like to share.

I've noticed that some pali words really make me struggle wrt pronunciation, so here's my phonetic-spelling for some words that I struggle with. Please please please correct me if I am pronouncing words wrong!

Uposatha (Oooo-poh-sah-tah)
Upasaka (Oooo-pah-sah-kah)
Upekkha (Oooo-peck-ah)
Dukkha (D'oooo-kah)

Do those look right? I struggle because the pronunciation of uposatha and upasaka are so so similar, or am I wrong?

Also, I recently noticed that metta is pronounced with an elongated 'a' at the end, like "met-ah" rather than the "meta" as I have usually said it... does everyone put the emphasis on the last 'a' or is my source in error?

Please feel free to comment and/or help me out... or even to state some of your own pronunciation nightmares!

(incidentally, the longer words like anapannasati I can pronounce okay (I think) because I've heard them said in lectures... the more simple words I tend not to hear as much for some reason... not sure why)
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby mikenz66 » Thu May 28, 2009 9:36 am

Hi Mawkish,

The rendering of Pali in the Roman alphabet is already phonetic. You just need to know the rules. :reading:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #pronounce
Assuming, of course, that it is written with the diacriticals (or some code for them) so you know which vowels are short and which are long, and when there is a "ng" sound (ṃ & ṅ) and other stuff like ñ.

English speakers mangle Pali (like they mangle the native language in my country, Maori) because they think that just because it uses Roman letters the pronunciation should have something to do with English - which is a curious attitude... So they can't accept, for example, tha "e" is pronounced as "aye" (and always gets emphasis). [Happens to be the same pronunciation as Maori, which is not surprising since that's also a phonetic rendering...]
The other big challenge is the syllables. After a while you'll realise that certain letters never end a syllable, so you won't have a problem. The double consonants should be pronounced. the "h" in "kh" indicates an aspirated sound, etc...
"v" usually comes out as "w" because languges like Thai don't have a "v"... :thinking:

Note that Upekkha splits up as U-pek-kha (U-payk-ka)
and Dukkha as Duk-kha

Doing some Pali chanting while following the text helps a lot:
http://www.forestmeditation.com/audio/audio.html

Metta
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Individual » Thu May 28, 2009 10:16 pm

Uposatha is pronounced askfhaskdhfuayhef...

Upasaka is pronounced hdsffgaudshfua...

I don't see what's so difficult about it.
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri May 29, 2009 1:44 am

haha
then you get the thai way of (mis)pronouncing all these words....
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby mikenz66 » Fri May 29, 2009 2:45 am

jcsuperstar wrote:haha
then you get the thai way of (mis)pronouncing all these words....

Hmm, just how do Thai's pronounce hdsffgaudshfua?

Mike
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Fri May 29, 2009 2:57 am

Individual wrote:Uposatha is pronounced askfhaskdhfuayhef...

Upasaka is pronounced hdsffgaudshfua...

I don't see what's so difficult about it.


:lol:
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri May 29, 2009 1:39 pm

Some words can be found on this page.
AIM WebsiteMy ForumsPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Fede » Fri May 29, 2009 2:30 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:haha
then you get the thai way of (mis)pronouncing all these words....

Hmm, just how do Thai's pronounce hdsffgaudshfua?

Mike


It's a sound of derision.

Didn't you know?
You find it pronounced by overweight retired peers, equipped with walrus moustaches (pronounced mouse - tashies) and monocles, whilst eulogising about the good ol' days....


I think I find some terms easy to pronounce,because I am tri-lingual and have no difficulty (thanks to my latin roots) in discerning when A is 'ey' and A is 'Aah'....
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Individual » Sun May 31, 2009 4:10 am

mikenz66 wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:haha
then you get the thai way of (mis)pronouncing all these words....

Hmm, just how do Thai's pronounce hdsffgaudshfua?

Mike

Exactly as it's spelled. Would it help if I added diacritics?
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 31, 2009 8:19 am

Pali is rather easy to pronounce with a bit of work and learning the rules. Ven Pesala's link is a help.

Learning the pronunciation of any language takes practice. Some are harder than others, so be thankful it is Pali, which is fairly easy pronunciation to learn rather than Irish, where you might run into this: nuachtghníomhaireacht.
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun May 31, 2009 4:00 pm

tiltbillings wrote: Irish, where you might run into this: nuachtghníomhaireacht.

In the early 70's I was in London in the subway (I think it was called tube at that time over there?) and heard some Londoners talking in some strange dialect - language. Later I asked what language they were speaking in. After some laughs I was told it was Cockney which I guess is English :tongue:
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Cittasanto » Sun May 31, 2009 4:30 pm

TheDhamma wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Irish, where you might run into this: nuachtghníomhaireacht.

In the early 70's I was in London in the subway (I think it was called tube at that time over there?) and heard some Londoners talking in some strange dialect - language. Later I asked what language they were speaking in. After some laughs I was told it was Cockney which I guess is English :tongue:


Hi Dhamma
The british isles have many dialects and languages, there is the queens english which is the standard, and many many variations scotland speaks scottish (similare to english but has enough variations to be considered a seperate language, and up in aberdeen there is another language called Doric) I speak manx-English dialect their is also mancunian liverpudian and cocney being the slang language not dialect of london, but what you know as the subway is known as the tube in london, or underground.

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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Dhammanando » Sun May 31, 2009 5:44 pm

Manapa wrote:but what you know as the subway is known as the tube in london, or underground.


And what we know as a "subway", I expect David would know as a "pedestrian underpass". :smile:
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun May 31, 2009 9:38 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Manapa wrote:but what you know as the subway is known as the tube in london, or underground.


And what we know as a "subway", I expect David would know as a "pedestrian underpass". :smile:


Correct. But at least in Nevada and California, they are mostly "pedestrian overpasses."
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 31, 2009 10:02 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Correct. But at least in Nevada and California, they are mostly "pedestrian overpasses."

You mean a bridge?

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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun May 31, 2009 10:13 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
TheDhamma wrote:Correct. But at least in Nevada and California, they are mostly "pedestrian overpasses."

You mean a bridge?
Mike

Yes, I suppose you could call it a bridge. :tongue: But over here they are mostly called, "pedestrian overpasses."

Image

Image

A great way to cross the Strip, especially at night. See the overpass on the right.
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby kc2dpt » Sun May 31, 2009 11:40 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Manapa wrote:but what you know as the subway is known as the tube in london, or underground.


And what we know as a "subway", I expect David would know as a "pedestrian underpass". :smile:

I thought a subway was a sandwich. :shrug:
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:02 am

Greetings Peter,

Peter wrote:I thought a subway was a sandwich. :shrug:


I like their vegie wraps with chipotle sauce.

Metta,
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Re: Pronunciation nightmares: uposatha and upasaka make me cry

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:30 am

The dhammawheel community is wonderful! :D
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