Newtown Shootings

A place to discuss casual topics amongst spiritual friends.
User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Mawkish1983 wrote:HE MADE A CHOICE, HE KILLED TWENTY INNOCENT CHILDREN.
And he is currently facing the results of that choice.

Your anger is understandable, but what good does it do? Hate and rage won't bring anyone back.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
User avatar
poto
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 am

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by poto »

Mawkish1983 wrote:I sincerely hope this statement is not directed at me.
No, that was directed more at society in general.

I'm sorry that you can't let go of your hatred. I used to grapple with a lot of anger myself, but found it to be very destructive and detrimental to my practice. I try to let it go these days.

The choice the killer made was likely driven by severe and untreated mental illness. It was a terrible thing, I'm not attempting to deny that. I just think that the killer was also suffering, and because of that I try to find some compassion for him as well as the victims. As is often the case with violence such as this, everyone involved suffers.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19943
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Mawkish,
Mawkish1983 wrote:I need to be off the internet for a while.
It's certainly not an ideal place to reflect on such a difficult issue. The sort of vigil that ancientbuddhism describes would be a much better, less contention-generating, space.

:candle: :candle: :candle: :candle: :candle: ...
Mike
sattva
Posts: 1254
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by sattva »

"Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world,
Spreading upward to the skies,
And downward to the depths;
Outward and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down,
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.
This is said to be the sublime abiding."
from the Metta Sutta
http://www.chatzy.com/25904628501622
jonno
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:34 pm

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by jonno »

Hi all. My first reaction was that of horror and deep sadness for the children and their families, also anger towards the perpetrator. However on reflection, for every action there is a cause however incomprehensible that may be. The killer must have felt that his actions were justified even though his thinking was twisted and insane. Although it is difficult for us to comprehend something in his mind must have driven him to carry out this heinous act. Perhaps we should be concentrating on trying to understand his mental state in order that we may be able to recognise this in others and perhaps be able to take action to Prevent this horror from occurring in the future . My thoughts and prayers go out to all concerned and I send them healing thoughts and prayers. Bless you all dear ones.
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Ben »

I agree Jonno.
However, I think its well over time that Americans demanded real action.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17191
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by DNS »

Some more info is developing in this story . . .

Apparently the killer tried to purchase guns at a local gun dealer but was denied (he was only 20 years old). One must be at least 21 to legally purchase a pistol and pass a background check. He used his mother's guns. I agree that there needs to be stricter restrictions on who can purchase guns, but unfortunately it probably wouldn't have mattered in this case since he acquired the guns illegally.
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Ben »

David N. Snyder wrote:but unfortunately it probably wouldn't have mattered in this case since he acquired the guns illegally.
True.
But why is there so many guns in the US?
And why are they so easily obtainable (legally or illegally?)
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
poto
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 am

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by poto »

Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:but unfortunately it probably wouldn't have mattered in this case since he acquired the guns illegally.
True.
But why is there so many guns in the US?
And why are they so easily obtainable (legally or illegally?)
kind regards,

Ben
Because civilians rose up and used their guns to shoot the British. And my nation's founders thought it would be a good idea to keep the populace armed to guard against invasion. Historically it worked well to dissuade our enemies.

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17191
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by DNS »

Ben wrote: But why is there so many guns in the US?
It seems to be ingrained into the American culture, from the early Wild West days of U.S. history, glamorizing quick-draw cowboys and Marshalls. Hunting is popular in most rural parts of the U.S. and in urban areas many like it for self-defense.
Ben wrote: And why are they so easily obtainable (legally or illegally?)
There are too many guns around. It is to the point where I think it could be impossible to round up all the guns even if a president and Congress wanted to do so. The leaders should put more restrictions on purchasing; for example, rifles, shotguns, and in some states even assault weapons can easily be purchased by anyone over 18. Pistols have more regulations, but in most cases only a one page application, age of 21 or higher, and a background check. In most states, a gun safety course is not even required! :o
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Ben »

poto wrote:
Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:but unfortunately it probably wouldn't have mattered in this case since he acquired the guns illegally.
True.
But why is there so many guns in the US?
And why are they so easily obtainable (legally or illegally?)
kind regards,

Ben
Because civilians rose up and used their guns to shoot the British. And my nation's founders thought it would be a good idea to keep the populace armed to guard against invasion.
With great respect to your founding fathers, I believe the retention of the 'right to bear arms' clause in this day and age is an anachronism and its presence now is only harming you.
Historically it worked well to dissuade our enemies.
I'll take your word for it.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Ben »

David N. Snyder wrote:There are too many guns around.
Paul McGeough, who is a respected journalist in this country, wrote an opinion piece published today that there is an estimated 300 million weapons in circulation in the US and another four million entering the market each year. Unfortunately he doesn't cite where he got those figures from.

After the 1996 Port Arthur massacre where Martin Bryant killed 35 people in Tasmania, our federal govt organized a national compulsory gun buy back scheme. Apart from a number of professional groups and sporting clubs who were exempt from the buy back, the scheme netted millions of weapons which were destroyed. The sky didn't fall in. While we still have some gun-related crime - there's a lot less of it.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
poto
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 am

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by poto »

Ben wrote: With great respect to your founding fathers, I believe the retention of the 'right to bear arms' clause in this day and age is an anachronism and its presence now is only harming you.
I would respectfully disagree. If you watch the very first video I posted in this thread, statistically violence has been on a declining trend for centuries. The presence of more guns hasn't made our society as a whole more violent. In fact, here in the US violent crime has been on a decline since the mid-90's. I largely attribute the uptick in the 70's and 80's to the war on drugs and especially crack cocaine use which has waned in recent years. Although, meth seems to be a growing concern these days.

Image

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

So, how is it harming me exactly?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
Justsit
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Justsit »

Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:There are too many guns around.
Paul McGeough, who is a respected journalist in this country, wrote an opinion piece published today that there is an estimated 300 million weapons in circulation in the US and another four million entering the market each year. Unfortunately he doesn't cite where he got those figures from.

After the 1996 Port Arthur massacre where Martin Bryant killed 35 people in Tasmania, our federal govt organized a national compulsory gun buy back scheme. Apart from a number of professional groups and sporting clubs who were exempt from the buy back, the scheme netted millions of weapons which were destroyed. The sky didn't fall in. While we still have some gun-related crime - there's a lot less of it.
kind regards,

Ben
The figure quoted today in the Washington Post is roughly 270 million privately owned guns (estimate - counting method varies by state). This amounts to 88 guns for every 100 people. This figure does not include illegal guns.

A compulsory buy back would never fly here in the US. Many Americans love guns :guns: - my brother owns 70 (don't ask me why, I don't have a clue). And as long as the Second Amendment (misinterpreted as it is) and the National Rifle Association are in existence, real gun control is off limits (politically, it's a death sentence) and the attitude is "I'll give you my gun when you pry (or take) it from my cold, dead hands" (NRA slogan - seriously). As long as the bad guys can get anything they want on the black market, from Saturday night specials and fully automatic weapons all the way to rocket launchers, scared citizens will demand the "right to protect" themselves.

The results of these attitudes are self-evident.
alan
Posts: 3111
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by alan »

American culture fetishizes guns. Until we get past that, these things will continue to happen.
Just a point of fact.
Locked