Newtown Shootings

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Mr Man
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Mr Man »

I think it would kind of be nice if we could separate the tragedy of what happened from the Gun Control debate though. My heart goes out to those who lost their loved ones and those who were affected.
Justsit
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Justsit »

Agreed, Mr. Man.

In the interest of accuracy, though, the rifle used is not a "hunting rifle" - unless one is hunting humans. (Available for about $800 at your local Walmart. Gotta love America.)
corrine
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by corrine »

While I live in the southwestern United States and I am an advocate of gun control, at this time my only feeling is one of grief for these innocent lives lost and for their poor families who may never recover. How do you move forward when something so unthinkable has happened to your sweet little angel? Are there any answers to be had? Anger is a normal but not helpful response. I really believe that we have to find a way to stop these senseless slaughters. My country, which I dearly love, seems to have become a shooting gallery. I do not know what has changed to cause this. It was not this way when I was young. Children were, overall, free to live their precious little lives safely. I grew up in Los Angeles and ran around the entire neighborhood without my parents having to worry. In the fifties. The neighbors watched out for all of the kids.

What has happened to us as a nation? I simply cannot come to grips with this. Are there answers? To be angry in the aftermath may be natural, but it does not seem to address the actual horrible problem. What can we do, now, to stop this?

corrine
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

corrine wrote: What has happened to us as a nation? I simply cannot come to grips with this. Are there answers? To be angry in the aftermath may be natural, but it does not seem to address the actual horrible problem. What can we do, now, to stop this?
We can have a meaningful conversation about the gun laws that allowed this to happen!
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
daverupa
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by daverupa »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
corrine wrote: What has happened to us as a nation? I simply cannot come to grips with this. Are there answers? To be angry in the aftermath may be natural, but it does not seem to address the actual horrible problem. What can we do, now, to stop this?
We can have a meaningful conversation about the gun laws that allowed this to happen!
Guns are not magical talismans that break the minds of those who come into contact with them. Violence being done, the particular tool chosen is not a sole cause (it may not even be a cause). Trying to remove means without addressing motives is going about things altogether backwards.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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anjali
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by anjali »

Ben wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:but unfortunately it probably wouldn't have mattered in this case since he acquired the guns illegally.
True.
But why is there so many guns in the US?
And why are they so easily obtainable (legally or illegally?)
kind regards,

Ben
Originally, there was the notion of the citizen militia. No standing army. Of course that changed very quickly, but the notion of an armed citizenry didn't. That doesn't totally explain the current situation in the US, but it does give context.
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SDC
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by SDC »

corrine wrote:What has happened to us as a nation? I simply cannot come to grips with this. Are there answers? To be angry in the aftermath may be natural, but it does not seem to address the actual horrible problem. What can we do, now, to stop this?

corrine
Slow down...which we won't.

As a nation, the US wants to keep moving, producing, creating, developing, progressing...more, more, more, and we want it with peace and happiness maintained the entire time. Have cake, eat too. Every day. No matter what. All the while, we do our best to combat all the negative side affects that arise. Problem is, the faster we move the more elaborate the negative side affects become, and the more difficult they are to combat.

If we continue at this pace, there is absolutely NOTHING that can be done to stop something like this from happening again. "As a nation" we have lost control.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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appicchato
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by appicchato »

Just read this elsewhere...true that...

'...not even the taliban have done something so vile. He shot each child several times.'
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Monkey Mind
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Monkey Mind »

{removed editorial comments, this does not seem like an appropriate thread for that...}

May the surviving families of the dead (and of the perpetrator) experience wellness during this difficult time.
Last edited by Monkey Mind on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
Yana
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Yana »

I don't understand America's gun culture.
Does this look like a weapon "civilians" purchase for "self defense"?
Assault Weapons...come on...are you waiting for some kind of zombie invasion...seriously how man rounds can you pump into an intruder..

One man brings a shoe bomb at the airport now everyone has to take their shoes off through security.
A lot of people die of gun related deaths and nothings been done about it.Mental health issues or not.I'm pretty sure If you took the gun away it would have limited his way of killing.
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poto
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by poto »

Yana wrote: Does this look like a weapon "civilians" purchase for "self defense"?
This is a common misunderstanding. Our 2nd amendment rights were written specifically so that the population be well armed and able to fight against an army.

It was not written to protect the rights of hunters, sportsmen or for mere self-defense. The founding fathers feared the British would return and attempt to retake the fledgling nation, and as such they wanted to ensure the people had the power to resist them. This is why the 2nd amendment allows us to keep assault weapons that are on par with military small arms.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
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retrofuturist
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
poto wrote:It was not written to protect the rights of hunters, sportsmen or for mere self-defense. The founding fathers feared the British would return and attempt to retake the fledgling nation, and as such they wanted to ensure the people had the power to resist them. This is why the 2nd amendment allows us to keep assault weapons that are on par with military small arms.
But are Americans still scared of the British?

What would be more manly than renouncing this fear and the constitutional amendment that such fear spawned?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Justsit
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Justsit »

retrofuturist wrote: But are Americans still scared of the British?

What would be more manly than renouncing this fear and the constitutional amendment that such fear spawned?
No, now we're scared of big government, drug dealers, whackos - basically each other.

In America, manly is equated with big guns. Big anything. Bigger is better. Bigger is powerful. Big guns are equated with big, um, anatomy. :jedi:
Really. A lot of American men have issues. :rolleye:
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manas
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by manas »

Mawkish wrote: Right now I feel nothing but pure, raging, caustic anger at the killer. Anger of such intense magnitude that it has completely overwhelmed my senses. THEY WERE CHILDREN. NOW THEY ARE CORPSES.
I'm a parent, and my initial reaction was of horror, and of shock. They were just little kids...it's unthinkable.

But then reality sank in. Such cruelty to the vulnerable has been ongoing throughout history. Little children are, tragically, abused or killed in all kinds of ways, most likely somewhere every day, all around the world, whether or not we hear about it in the 'news'.

imho it's fine to feel some sadness for a while, but not to dwell on it too much, because there is important work to be done: the work of purifying the mind of the defilements. Anger is a defilement of the mind, so we've got to let go of anger towards the perpetrator, not to 'let him off the hook' in any way, but rather for our own sakes. Didn't he (also) kill his mother and then himself? If so that would mean his current location is in hell (if my memory serves me correctly, intentionally killing one's mother or father leads to a hellish rebirth in the very next life). Truly, we can have compassion for everyone involved in this tragic event.

:candle:
Last edited by manas on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Kusala
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Post by Kusala »

Ben wrote:I agree Jonno.
However, I think its well over time that Americans demanded real action.
kind regards,

Ben
Hi Ben, I hate to sound like a pessimist, but it's virtually impossible. Gun control is about as effective as the "war on drugs"...
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

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Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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