Liberal attitudes and meditation

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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m0rl0ck
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Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:18 pm

I had suspected this but now :


"Spiritual experiences seem to make people feel more of a connection with others," says Hirsh. "The boundaries we normally maintain between ourselves and the world tend to dissolve during spiritual experiences. These feelings of self-transcendence make it easier to recognize that we are all part of the same system, promoting an inclusive and egalitarian mindset."


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 131532.htm
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

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appicchato
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby appicchato » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:40 pm

Spiritual experiences seem to make people feel more of a connection with others...


What is a 'spiritual experience'?...so, while being ignorant of such an animal, if asked, I would have to say that 'Spiritual experiences seem to make some people feel more of a connection with others...

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:59 pm

actually the article seems to be using the term in the sense of feeling more connected to and empathic of our fellow beings. I cant imagine it being defined as something that maintains or strenghtens separation and ego.

That quote in my original post is pretty much defines the way the authors are using it. What definition would you like?
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

Samma
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby Samma » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:22 pm

Reality has a well known liberal bias...says stephen colbert.

The guided mediation was specifically on "feeling connected to the environment".

Hadit has done research on liberal/conservative:

So I guess it would basically go something like this:
Mediation = increased openness to experience = more liberal

Still, we should be careful about all this interconnection stuff and conflating it with spirituality or Buddhism...
InsightJournal: What role did the idea of “the interconnectedness of all things” play in Romantic thought? How did that come to be confused with dependent co-arising? How is it different?
Thanissaro: For the Romantics, one of the primary spiritual dilemmas is a sense of separateness: from your innermost self, from your fellow human beings, from the natural world. One of their spiritual laws is that religious life aims at ending
these ways of feeling separate by establishing (or reestablishing) a feeling either of connectedness or oneness: the two ideas tend to get conflated. They’re both a Good Thing. Dependent co-arising, however, has nothing to do with
connectedness or separateness. It’s an analysis of how suffering happens. If it’s allowed to continue, it’s anything but a Good Thing, for it’s unstable and always entails suffering. The only good thing about dependent co-arising is that it shows you which factors in experience have to be trained, which have to be abandoned, so that suffering inherent in allowing dependent co-arising to continue can be put to an end.

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:47 pm

Great ted talk, ty for posting it :)
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

chownah
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby chownah » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:19 am

appicchato wrote:
Spiritual experiences seem to make people feel more of a connection with others...


What is a 'spiritual experience'?...so, while being ignorant of such an animal, if asked, I would have to say that 'Spiritual experiences seem to make some people feel more of a connection with others...

From the article:

In the third study, the researchers recruited 317 participants from the U.S. and asked half to complete a spiritual exercise consisting of a guided meditation video. Those who watched the video were asked to close their eyes and breathe deeply, imagining themselves in a natural setting and feeling connected to the environment. They were then asked about their political orientation and to rate how spiritual they felt. The researchers reported that, compared to those in the control group, participants who meditated felt significantly higher levels of spirituality and expressed more liberal political attitudes, including a reduced support for "tough on crime" policies and a preference for liberal political candidates.
................................

Hope this helps.
chownah

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appicchato
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby appicchato » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:49 am

...a spiritual exercise...


Sorry, I don't get it...

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Kim OHara
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:13 am

appicchato wrote:
...a spiritual exercise...


Sorry, I don't get it...

:namaste: bhante,
The researchers' use of "religious" and "spiritual" is (dare I say it?) very American. As far as I can see, "religious" is conventionally-moral socially-conservative follow-the-rules-and-get-to-heaven Christianity, while "spiritual" is just about anything else but especially new-agey feel-good pop mysticism.
That's how they can say, "conservatism and religiousness both emphasize the importance of tradition, while liberalism and spirituality both emphasize the importance of equality and social harmony." It's also why they can run an "experiment" as simple-minded as the one described ...
In the third study, the researchers recruited 317 participants from the U.S. and asked half to complete a spiritual exercise consisting of a guided meditation video. Those who watched the video were asked to close their eyes and breathe deeply, imagining themselves in a natural setting and feeling connected to the environment. They were then asked about their political orientation and to rate how spiritual they felt.

... and claim the results mean something.
In case you hadn't noticed :tongue: I am not very impressed by what they have done. Nevertheless, I agree with their conclusions.
I reached the same conclusions myself, years ago. Even earlier, my father expressed them, indirectly, in his comment on politics: "If you vote conservative before you're forty, you haven't got a heart. If you vote liberal after you're forty, you haven't got a head." (At the age of 15 or so I decided that I would rather have a heart than a head, regardless of my age, and you may be glad to know that my voting has indeed moved further left as I get older ... but that's drifting off topic.)

:namaste:
Kim

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appicchato
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby appicchato » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:08 am

Thank you Kim...anything for a study, eh?...(you got me though...(American))...

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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby chownah » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:43 am

Now, now.......jai yen yen. The people who do these studies probably know full well that what constitutes a "spiritual experience" is hotly debated......and they are scientists. Scientists always make a concerted effort to completely define what it is they are studying and how they intend to measure it. The excerpt which I posted is just showing how they went about coming to their conclusion. I think we should be congratulating them for letting us know just exactly what they are presenting as a spiritual whatever......you might not agree with them on what it is but at least you know what their thinking was and what they did......that way you can make an informed comment about the inadequacy of their work and even let them know about it if you want.....this might help them to perform a better experiment....or you could just send them disparaging remarks if you want(hahahaha....just joking......jai yen yen!)

chownah

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Dan74
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby Dan74 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:39 am

The trouble with the study is all sorts of biases that would creep in I guess. If you made the group watch David Attenborough nature docos and then asked if they care about the environment, there would be some effect. Putting people through a 'meditation' would make the researchers expectations somewhat clear and would predispose people to choosing a certain way. Those who help strong beliefs would not be swayed but fence-sitters would be affected.
_/|\_

chownah
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Re: Liberal attitudes and meditation

Postby chownah » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Dan74 wrote:The trouble with the study is all sorts of biases that would creep in I guess. If you made the group watch David Attenborough nature docos and then asked if they care about the environment, there would be some effect. Putting people through a 'meditation' would make the researchers expectations somewhat clear and would predispose people to choosing a certain way. Those who help strong beliefs would not be swayed but fence-sitters would be affected.

Good post. In my cursory reading of the article I came to this exact same conclusion at least with regards to a statement of one of the researchers..........but if you look strictly at what the research was doing, it was trying to induce a "spiritual experience" to see if it would effect a person's political leanings. These are two domains which are usually thought to be fairly distant but this research is trying to show a connection or at least an association between them. A scientist might say that the "spiritual experience" was a conditioning and the political questionaire taken after the experience was a tool for measuring an expected effect of the conditioning........in other words they were trying to show if having a certain type of experience would effect a change in political leaning of a certain type......and their result was that it did effect a change.
chownah


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