Global Warming: Recent Data

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Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:23 am

Hi, everyone. I know The Global Warming thread was closed, but recent data is showing that we in fact may be entering a period of Global Cooling, much like what has been occurring periodically over The Earth's history.

To the moderator who locked this thread: Data streams will always continue regarding this topic. Perhaps we acted too soon. :coffee:


http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/envi ... al-cooling

http://www.newsmax.com/Rahn/Global-Warm ... /id/497516

"Satellite data from NASA covering 2000 through 2011 cast doubt on current computer models predicting global warming, according to a new study. The data shows that much less heat is retained by carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere than is assumed in current models. 'There is a huge discrepancy between the data and the forecasts that is especially big over the oceans,' said Dr. Roy Spencer, a co-author of the study and research scientist at the University of Alabama."
Note: the press release about the study is somewhat less over the top.


http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2 ... well-2011/
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:38 am

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:51 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Global Cooling or Global Warming, Which Is It?:

Global Warming. No argument, no possibility of a mistake.
I will get back soon with evidence ... no time now.

:namaste:
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:52 am

{{{groan}}}
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby purple planet » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:55 am

Global warming had strengthened the "green movement" a lot - this movement has lots of bad sides (cant remember now but they exist - dont ask me what are they - if i would remember i would have written it ) but much much more good sides -

so if there needs to be a lie for global warming for people to care more about the environment animal rights ect then its great

once if a factory was polluting and a few poor people who lived next to it were suffering because of it no one would care but now thanks to the whole "global warming" then people do care a little more -

One claim is that cows contribute to global warming = to stop golbal warming you need to lower meat consumption= good - so thats one reason to "support" the global warming theory

so i pretend its real until proven otherwise
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Dan74 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:57 am

Dr Roy Spencer whom you quoted is a creationist who has said that "Earth and its ecosystems – created by God's intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence – are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting." So if you are looking for an objective scientific appraisal of the situation, you are not going to find it from him.
_/|\_
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby purple planet » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:09 am

{{{groan}}}


lol now i get this reply :rofl: lol
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby plwk » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:11 am

They must have used Celcius... :mrgreen:
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it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:38 am

Okay, Ron,
You link to five sites. None of them appear to have any scientific credentials whatever. The first two are blatantly political, the third is by a serial climate misinformer (Pielke [url]http://www.skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Roger_Pielke_Sr.htm[/url) and the last is by someone who covers (ahem) "public policy, particularly concerning economics."
The fourth is as :alien: as the others but is at least smart enough to rely on expert advice and comes to the conclusion that, yes, the earth is still warming:
Global temperatures are “highest in 4000 years”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/08/scien ... .html?_r=0
Is the Arctic Ice Cap really “Recovering”
http://imageshack.us/a/img594/7655/5vb.gif
July 2013 was the 341st consecutive month of ABOVE AVERAGE GLOBAL TEMPERATURES. August will be the 342nd but has not yet been tabulated, that’s over 28 years of consecutive above average temperatures.
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/july ... nths-16360

That's all correct. Still not the last word on the science, but all correct.
Really, this http://desmogblog.com/2012/11/15/why-climate-deniers-have-no-credibility-science-one-pie-chart is just about all you need to know about the state of climate science. However, if you want more, better and later science, here it is:
The Australian Climate Council http://www.climatecouncil.org.au/ summarised the latest IPCC report thus:
What actually are the key messages of the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report?
There is stronger evidence that the Earth’s climate is warming – rising air and ocean temperature, loss of mass from glaciers and ice sheets, and rising sea level.
Scientists are more certain than ever that most of the warming since 1950 has been caused by human activities, primarily the emission of carbon dioxide from fossil fuel combustion.
A warming climate is influencing the frequency and severity of many extreme weather events and is changing rainfall patterns, creating risks for human well-being, the economy and the environment.
Stabilising the climate system will require substantial and sustained reductions of carbon dioxide emissions, and those of other greenhouse gases.

RealClimate is a bit more technical: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/09/the-new-ipcc-climate-report/
If you prefer video, Climate State presents a crisp summary here - http://climatestate.com/2013/10/03/ipcc-climate-change-report-highlights/

If you're beginning to wonder where the dissenting (aka denialist) voices are coming from, start here
Dollars for Deniers: Big Oil Funds Climate Science Denialism (Daily Kos)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/26/1182365/-Dollars-for-Deniers-Big-Oil-Funds-Climate-Science-Denialism/
or here
Rupert Murdoch’s Newspapers Mislead Public On Climate Change and Environment (DeSmog Blog)
http://www.desmogblog.com/rupert-murdoch-s-newspapers-mislead-public-climate-change-and-environment

:reading:
:thinking:

:namaste:
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:42 am


Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:23 am
Hi, everyone. I know The Global Warming thread was closed, but recent data is showing that we in fact may be entering a period of Global Cooling, much like what has been occurring periodically over The Earth's history.

To the moderator who locked this thread: Data streams will always continue regarding this topic. Perhaps we acted too soon. :coffee:


http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/envi ... al-cooling

http://www.newsmax.com/Rahn/Global-Warm ... /id/497516

"Satellite data from NASA covering 2000 through 2011 cast doubt on current computer models predicting global warming, according to a new study. The data shows that much less heat is retained by carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere than is assumed in current models. 'There is a huge discrepancy between the data and the forecasts that is especially big over the oceans,' said Dr. Roy Spencer, a co-author of the study and research scientist at the University of Alabama."
Note: the press release about the study is somewhat less over the top.



http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2 ... well-2011/




Its nice to see a thread about respect for the truth. Ill add my bit.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby lyndon taylor » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:58 am

We are entering a period of global cooling in the northern Hemisphere, its called winter, however disturbingly in the southern hemisphere things are getting much hotter. Maybe that's what explains the OP's confusion on the topic!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby daverupa » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:31 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Data streams will always continue regarding this topic.


There's data streams, and there's political blowhards feeding lines to people.

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    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby nibbuti » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:17 pm

Hi.

Environmental friendly thinking is a loaded topic, but so is socialism etc. Both look good at some point in history.

But never underestimate the potential for 'good ideas' to turn into another facade for power & corruption, whenever they become mainstreamed.

For example, there's a trend here for selling the 'right to pollute' to bigger and more powerful companies. Whilst the smaller companies can't afford it and shut down, the big ones go on as before, even more powerful. And the politicians are happy to have another argument for raising taxes.

Thus, the big and powerful will love 'environmentalism' (and easily turn it upside down via popular media campaigns), so long as it is profitable business nurtured by greed, rather than an honest way of simple, peaceful life.

:smile:
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:06 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:We are entering a period of global cooling in the northern Hemisphere, its called winter, however disturbingly in the southern hemisphere things are getting much hotter. Maybe that's what explains the OP's confusion on the topic!!!


Yep! I live in The Northern Hemisphere! That explains it. :tongue:

:coffee: So, should we listen only to the Australian Climatologists or not? :popcorn:

Apologies for my lame posts from Energy Companies. What could energy producers possibly know about heat energy gain and loss? :tongue:

Also, please avoid posting Corporate Opinions from companies, which profit from this issue and present only data from qualified scientific resources like NASA, The National Geological Society, The UN, and The World Homeopathic Society. :reading:

In other words, don't do as I have done. Do what I say! :coffee:

And then, moderator, please lock this thread. :thinking: I now see the error of my ways. :toilet:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby purple planet » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:46 pm

Just want to make clear i think its great to hear other opinions and reaching the truth - and i do think that lots of people who talk about global warming have something to gain from it - some not only gain from it but their entire career is based on it !


Global Cooling or Global Warming, Which Is It?


I will keep reading and learn about this and try to understand more about this subject just saying that as far as my public opinion i think its best to support the idea that there is global warming - (daverupas great image sums my opinion)

i know that its :offtopic: and not a direct answer to your question just wanted to add my opinion on the subject - its always great to hear all sides of the story so this are interesting links
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:56 am

purple planet wrote:Just want to make clear i think its great to hear other opinions and reaching the truth - and i do think that lots of people who talk about global warming have something to gain from it - some not only gain from it but their entire career is based on it !

Hi, PP,
In exactly the same way, doctors' entire careers are based on people being sick, and police officers' and lawyers' careers are based on people doing wrong.
They are still the people with the expertise.

purple planet wrote:I will keep reading and learn about this and try to understand more about this subject just saying that as far as my public opinion i think its best to support the idea that there is global warming - (daverupas great image sums my opinion)

That's a great cartoon and yes, if you have any doubts at all about the science then take the "safe bet" approach (check out the Apannaka Sutta for a similar argument on morality :smile: )
But really, the science is settled. Check out the links on my first response to Ron, above.

:namaste:
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:37 am

Ron,
With all due respect, you're falling over your own feet in your attempts to be funny and sarcastic and dismissive all at once. It doesn't work for me and I don't think it works for you. To avoid further confusion I will give plain, straightforward responses to each of your comments, whether you intended them to be taken at face value or not. Here goes:
Ron-The-Elder wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:We are entering a period of global cooling in the northern Hemisphere, its called winter, however disturbingly in the southern hemisphere things are getting much hotter. Maybe that's what explains the OP's confusion on the topic!!!


Yep! I live in The Northern Hemisphere! That explains it. :tongue:

The Northern Hemisphere is entering winter. Weather is not climate but a surprising number of people do get one cold spell and declare global warming must have stopped or never existed in the first place.
Assuming you are not making that (very dumb) mistake, you may still be having colder-than-usual winters and they still don't disprove global warming, since is the global average over the whole year which is increasing. Hidden under that basic statistic are all sorts of local variations, one of which happens to be colder winters in the northern US and in Europe.
Ron-The-Elder wrote: :coffee: So, should we listen only to the Australian Climatologists or not? :popcorn:

Not only but also. Certainly listen more to climatologists than to anyone else, whether Aussie or not.
Incidentally, that cheap shot reveals that you haven't taken the time to follow most (any?) of the links I posted earlier, since nearly all of them are to US sites and experts. The odd one out is a worldwide group of climatologists led by an Aussie and a German but based in the US.

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Apologies for my lame posts from Energy Companies.

Apology accepted.
Ron-The-Elder wrote:What could energy producers possibly know about heat energy gain and loss? :tongue:

All they have to know is engineering heat gain and loss in their refinery and transport operations.

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Also, please avoid posting Corporate Opinions from companies, which profit from this issue and present only data from qualified scientific resources like NASA, The National Geological Society, The UN, and The World Homeopathic Society. :reading:

I'm not quite sure what you mean here but I will guess.
(1) You think we should be wary of "authorities" and "experts" with vested interests. I agree. But the biggest vested interests, by far, are the fossil fuel companies. If we decarbonise to avert catastrophic climate change, their profits plummet and so does the value of all their assets: if we leave the oil and coal in the ground, it's worth nothing. That gives them tens of billions of reasons to lie about climate, and they have been lying systematically ever since they realised there was a problem. Look at "Dollars for Deniers: Big Oil Funds Climate Science Denialism (Daily Kos)" linked in my previous post for details, and/or The Merchants of Doubt http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/.
(2) You think NASA and The World Homeopathic Society have equal competence and credibility on climate change. You are wrong.
Ron-The-Elder wrote:In other words, don't do as I have done. Do what I say! :coffee:

You posted links and a quote. So did I.
:shrug:

Ron-The-Elder wrote:And then, moderator, please lock this thread.

I'm prepared to debate the issue as long as necessary. The mods are unlikely to step in and lock it unless we break the TOS which I seem to remember happening in a previous thread on the subject ... accusations of bad faith or lying or abuse, IIRC. I don't lie (though I can occasionally be mistaken) and I don't attack people for their sincerely held opinions, although I can and will attack unjustifiable opinions. How long the thread stays open is therefore up to you.
Ron-The-Elder wrote: I now see the error of my ways. :toilet:

If so, fine - but you don't have to :toilet:
:smile:
Okay ... over to you. My view is that this is a serious issue, affecting the wellbeing of literally tens of millions of people in the coming decades if we don't address it, and deserves to be taken seriously. For that reason I have limitless patience for anyone with genuine questions who is willing to listen to answers.

:namaste:
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:01 am

Hi, Kim. Nice to read your posts again. Thank you for the sincere responses.

My comment regarding Aussie Climatologists was meant to be humorous, but as you said, I failed to "know my audience". Please forgive.

Thank you for the offer to discuss this issue in earnest, but I am afraid that we would be preaching to the choir. As you apparently forgot from our interactions in other forums over the years I worked in the field of environmental safety and health for over thirty-five years. My ineffectual glibness was directed at those stating the obvious. However, I do not hold Climatologists as the world's experts as you do. I look to physics, chemistry, and biology as well for confirmation as to the health of our world's climate. I do not consider Global Warming a done deal as do you, nor do I dismiss professionals from the engineering, and energy production community as liars and self-serving cheats. I believe they as occupants of this planet have as much to lose as do you and I.

In any event, thank you for sharing what you have learned and your personal biases as regards this topic. I would like to take you up on the offer for a beneficial, expert, and honest discussion of the topic in so far as we are able. Perhaps we can begin with a list of resources that both you and I consider to be worthy, honest, and credentialed. As I said previously,

I like NASA: http://climate.nasa.gov/ and consider them unbiased.

I also respect NOAA: http://www.weather.gov/

Both you and I should agree on IPCC: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... nteractive

I found: http://www.climatealliance.org/co2-moni ... &L=0#c3130 Don't know much about it, but would like to learn more.

What are your suggestions / candidates for reliable sources? :coffee:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby fig tree » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:52 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Hi, everyone. I know The Global Warming thread was closed, but recent data is showing that we in fact may be entering a period of Global Cooling, much like what has been occurring periodically over The Earth's history.

Our reasons for expecting more warming are not simply a matter of extrapolating from data. But if you want to see whether there is some sign in the data of the trend stopping or reversing, look at it:

http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/global-average-temperature-increase-giss-hadcru-and-ncdc-compared/

How does this not look like an upward trend with some random year-to-year variation added to it? As the author of that page observes, we had an unusually warm year in 1998, and people who want us to keep burning fossil fuels with abandon keep trying to use 1998 as some kind of baseline year. It's just "cherry picking". For a closer look at the recent years:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

More careful statistical analysis also does not contradict the visual appearance of an upward trend, which is exactly what we would expect from the rest of what we know.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby monkey_brain » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:43 am

http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com ... tated3.png
graph.png
graph.png (32.1 KiB) Viewed 598 times
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