Global Warming: Recent Data

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Mkoll » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:10 pm

I should have said you would "certainly" dispute facts rather than "probably". :toilet:
Peace,
James
User avatar
Mkoll
 
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:00 am

Mkoll wrote:I should have said you would "certainly" dispute facts rather than "probably". :toilet:


:smile: Finally we agree on something: You "probably" should have said "certainly".

Recently I watched a documentary regarding the life and accomplishments of Nikola Tesla, who provided us with much of what we need to dramatically reduce the increase in CO2 in our atmosphere: Hydro-electric power generation and the electric motor.

With the invention of the lithium-ion battery by Drs. John Goodenough, Phil Wiseman, dr. Koichi Mizushima and dr. Phil Jones there is little excuse for any of us to still be driving internal combustion engine vehicles, or at least not those that aren't hybrids.

A plaque is to be mounted at the entrance to Oxford University’s Inorganic Chemistry Laboratory, where prof. John Goodenough, dr. Phil Wiseman, dr. Koichi Mizushima and dr. Phil Jones put the basis of what’s now in the pockets of almost every human, with ages from 3 to 100 and that’s going to stay for a little while more.


Edmunds review of hybrid and electric vehicles: http://www.edmunds.com/hybrid/?mktcat=g ... Aq6I8P8HAQ

For economy of price there are electric scooters: http://www.omegastores.com/gtx-l.htm

And for those too damn lazy to walk, or those of us who are suffering with ambulatory problems due to old age:

http://www.amazon.com/Segway-i180-Human ... B0006HU2FA
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Mkoll » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:41 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:
Mkoll wrote:I should have said you would "certainly" dispute facts rather than "probably". :toilet:


:smile: Finally we agree on something: You "probably" should have said "certainly".

:tongue:
Peace,
James
User avatar
Mkoll
 
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:07 am

Now this article is probably only of regional interest, but I think it illustrates what can be done to reduce CO2 emissions with provision of hydro and wind generated power if communities and industries work together. In this case, the industry is The Canadian Utility Companies, and the communities are legion in North-Central to South-Central New Hampshire, USA.

http://northernpass.us/index.htm

Image

What I don't like about the whole Northern Pass experience is that community complaints have been about "cosmetics", or , what boils down to: "Don't put those ugly > 200 foot transmission towers in my range of vision!"...rather than, "We must all sacrifice something for the betterment of of planet!" We experienced the same issues with wind power here in New Hampshire along the coast, where wind power is ideal.

The other, more important issue is the lack of transmission capacity in the U.S. North-East and the inconvenient truths such as maintenance and catastrophic failures.

Image

http://www.nhwindwatch.org/

Ironically, the most feasible alternative to wind is Solar, just as it is in most other locations. The reason is quite simple: Little to no moving parts.

Hope you folks in New Zealand and Australia don't mind too much.

(By the way, where was "Old Zealand"? Anybody know? :shrug:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Mkoll » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:16 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:By the way, where was "Old Zealand"? Anybody know? :shrug:

Great question, you've piqued my curiosity.

Apparently it's named after the westernmost province in the Netherlands: Zeeland.

Learn something new every day.
Peace,
James
User avatar
Mkoll
 
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:53 pm

Don't ride your bicycle to the grocery store, because you have a few kids, and/or don't have enough storage room for groceries? Christiania Bikes of Denmark has a viable solution:

http://www.jclindbikes.com/bikes/christiania-trike

This tricycle was featured on "How It Works" a documentary show on The Science Channel for those, who have an interest.

Besides reducing CO2 levels down to that of human exhalation, while exercising on a bicycle, it has the advantage of being a healthy weight reduction exercise, and improves cardiovascular fitness.

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/fitness/ ... -of-biking

http://www.adultbicycling.com/component ... ng-ii.html

Of course, if we don't succeed in lowering atmospheric CO2 there will be other exercise opportunities:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellnes ... imming.htm
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:(By the way, where was "Old Zealand"? Anybody know? :shrug:

I have always vaguely thought the name came from the Dutch and I've just checked - and I was right! :twothumbsup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand#Etymology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeeland

:focus:
Kim

Oops ... I just read the next post and found I was beaten to it.
:embarassed:
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:14 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Ironically, the most feasible alternative to wind is Solar, just as it is in most other locations. The reason is quite simple: Little to no moving parts.

Another reason is that it works perfectly well at every scale from mW to Mw. We use it a lot here in sunny North Queensland. Around my extended family (two households) we have a couple of PV battery chargers, a PV fountain in the garden in town, a PV-powered bore pump on the country place, 1.5 KW on the roof in town (mains connected), and 1 KW on the roof of the country house (stand-alone) - not enough to run big appliances but good for lighting and small appliances up to and including a small fridge. When we drive the 25 miles between the two we will see PV-powered signs beside the road, etc - it's now by far the cheapest and most convenient way to get permanent power anywhere more than a few hundred yards from an existing mains power line.

They last pretty well indefinitely, too - half the panels at the country house are more than thirty years old, bought by a very early adopter and moved here when he upgraded five years later.

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Hope you folks in New Zealand and Australia don't mind too much.

Of course we don't mind - plenty there for all of us.

:thumbsup:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby BlackBird » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:18 am

I'd love to see you take on a real scientist with your views Ron, how about you go challenge Steven Novella to a debate if you feel so strongly that the scientists have got it wrong:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/contact-us/

He's a real skeptic, and as such, like most others in the science community, he arrived at the appropriate conclusion: Humans are responsible for a real and happening global warming.

Also is it possible for you Ron, to post a credible source for those graphs you post that completely contradict the scientific data released by prestigious scientific institutions? Because little names with years attached listed on the graph don't mean anything, and the whole thing is quite easy to fabricate if no concrete sources are provided.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
User avatar
BlackBird
 
Posts: 1861
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:38 am

Hi, Blackbird. I agree with you. There are credible sources of data. And, there are sources which perhaps have a bias making their data suspect ( less believable), and , while it should still be studied, verified and validated, should be scrutinized with more caution.

I think NASA is a very credible source, and I also agree that there are many others:

http://rainbow.ldeo.columbia.edu/datasources.html

Properly gathered and fully reported data is not my problem. My problem is "predictions", which I have said from the beginning of this thread.

I have also stated that I am for acting upon facts, and against acting upon predictions.

I am very much against fear mongering based upon predictions, and for making a case for taking corrective actions (both personal and community) to abate real problems such as rising CO2 levels in our atmosphere.

Hopefully this will resolve your perception of our differences. :twothumbsup:

As for debating any so-called expert, what is the point? If anyone sees a problem, I see it as their responsibility to help to correct it at both a personal and public level.

Fair enough?
Last edited by Ron-The-Elder on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:35 am

More data for you Ron, neatly bundled by NOAA and summarised by Joe Romm: NOAA State Of The Climate In 2013: ‘Our Planet Is Becoming A Warmer Place’
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/07/18/3461677/noaa-state-of-the-climate-warmer/

:coffee:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:33 pm

Thanks for the link, Kim. Second warmest year in Australia and third highest in New Zealand? You should have no problem convincing conservatives at this point. No? Yes? :coffee:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:31 pm

During an outdoor market visit this morning I found out that The EPA is being petitioned by The Siera Club to eliminate fossil fuel power generation.

I asked the kid doing the survey and collecting signatures for the petition if the Siera Club supported The Northern Pass Hydroelectric project, which would significantly reduce the CO2, byproducts of fossil fuel power production. He looked at me like a deer staring into a set of headlights at dusk. I could hear the crickets chirping in the background.

This is what bothers me about this whole approach of anti fossil fuels with no viable alternatives being offered by such groups. My youngest daughter is coming up to visit in a few weeks. I will pass the baton to her and hope that she has more energy than I do at this point to work with such folks as these.

Image
Last edited by Ron-The-Elder on Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:48 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Thanks for the link, Kim. Second warmest year in Australia and third highest in New Zealand? You should have no problem convincing conservatives at this point. No? Yes? :coffee:

You're right, we should have no problem convincing our conservatives.
Unfortunately, our current incumbents make average conservatives look like commo greenies with genius-level IQ's.
:toilet:

Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Mkoll » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:23 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Ron-The-Elder wrote:Thanks for the link, Kim. Second warmest year in Australia and third highest in New Zealand? You should have no problem convincing conservatives at this point. No? Yes? :coffee:

You're right, we should have no problem convincing our conservatives.
Unfortunately, our current incumbents make average conservatives look like commo greenies with genius-level IQ's.
:toilet:

Kim

Yeah, we seem to have a similar trend going on with the GOP in the United States. Rick Perry will almost certainly be running for president in 2016. And remember Sarah Palin? One doesn't have to look hard to find these types in the GOP.

Image
Peace,
James
User avatar
Mkoll
 
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:25 pm

Biodiesel net CO2 = 0 What?

I heard the above claim on an energy conservation documentary, "Our Energy Future", which goal was educating the public and promoting alternative energy sources to fossil fuels. Their logic was that since the plant used to produce the oil (The Canola Plant) absorbed CO2 to build it's plant matrix and until decomposition of stalks, and combustion of the oil from the beans sequestered CO2, that its use was preventive of global warming.

Research disclosed the following claims and facts:

http://www.biodiesel.org/

http://biocubeco.com/faqs/what-are-the- ... um-diesel/

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 812AAUwvLj

Can biodiesel help mitigate “global warming?” A 1998 biodiesel life cycle study, jointly sponsored by the US Department of Energy and the US Department of Agriculture, concluded biodiesel reduces net CO² emissions by 78 percent compared to petroleum diesel. This is due to biodiesel’s closed carbon cycle. The CO² released into the atmosphere when biodiesel is burned is recycled by growing plants, which are later processed into fuel. Is biodiesel safer than petroleum diesel? Scientific research confirms that biodiesel exhaust has a less harmful impact on human health than petroleum diesel fuel. Biodiesel emissions have decreased levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) and nitrited PAH compounds that have been identified as potential cancer causing compounds. Test results indicate PAH compounds were reduced by 75 to 85 percent, with the exception of benzo(a)anthracene, which was reduced by roughly 50 percent. Targeted nPAH compounds were also reduced dramatically with biodiesel fuel, with 2-nitrofluorene and 1-nitropyrene reduced by 90 percent, and the rest of the nPAH compounds reduced to only trace levels.*


source: http://generalbiodiesel.com/index.php/b ... petroleum/

I also researched the availability in our state, New Hampshire, USA, and found only one location in the entire state in Portsmouth. "Bummer!" :coffee:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:50 pm

One of the advantages of living in a large community is having the expertise available to make beneficial (nonpolluting) energy generation decisions, such as when to retire old systems, and what to choose for projects when installing new systems.

RETScreen International has provided resources to aid communities with the analysis portion of that project. I thought that those of you who are involved may want to take a gander:

http://www.retscreen.net/ang/home.php

Apparently there are over 400,000 users in over 222 countries and territories. " Thank you, Canada." :hug:

Image
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby chownah » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:54 pm

Cropping land to produce oil for biodiesel brings to mind the question of how much land do we want to stop using for feeding the world's population and to start using so that the richest 25% of the population can jump in their car and go cruising for tofu McNuggets.
chownah
chownah
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:09 pm

chownah wrote:Cropping land to produce oil for biodiesel brings to mind the question of how much land do we want to stop using for feeding the world's population and to start using so that the richest 25% of the population can jump in their car and go cruising for tofu McNuggets.
chownah


This is an excellent point, chownah, one that was brought up in the documentary and addressed to the farming community. Apparently farmers into biodiesel are also into growing two crops on the same land Canola apparently has a short enough growing cycle so that both can be done in the total growing year. The farmer interviewed was also using biodiesel to fuel his farming vehicles. No doubt there will be much change in the agricultural industry as a result of farmers having to serve both the energy and food industries.

resource: http://www.agmrc.org/renewable_energy/b ... griculture

There is some evidence that the biofuels industry will also benefit the farmer struggling to survive. The more farmers capable of surviving will also mean that food stuff production with come from more diverse sources rather than just industrial farm production. The net result being a lowering of food costs in the long run.

resource: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5300

Another interesting concept brought up was developing enzymes to decompose the cellulose in not only canola bean plants, but in corn, where most of the crop is disposed (turned under) and the land left fallow (unused) for a year or two so that the till and nitrogenous components think organic fertilizer can build-up. A trip was made to Puerto Rico to examine types of bacteria and fungus, which are apparently very aggressive decomposers / biodegraders.


resource: Cellulosic Biofuels http://www.biotechnologyforbiofuels.com/content/5/1/45

Interestingly leaf-cutter ants were also examined because they have formed a symbiotic relationship with a fungi and mold, which they feed their cuttings to in a form of cultivation, because the fungi and mold can breakdown the cellulose in the leaves to a point where there are sugars produced, which the leaf cutter ant uses for nutrition.

Image

Bacteria and The Leaf Cutter Ant: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 084144.htm




Another approach mentioned was in a olive canning plant, where they used olive pits as a renewable biofuel to help with processing and manufacturing fuel.

There are many, many opportunities to utilize what would otherwise be considered waste to reduce energy usage. Every pound of biofuel utilized means one pound of fossil fuel which does not have to be burned. :thumbsup:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby manas » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:24 pm

Hi all,

I would like to bring some information to everyone's attention, which could possibly explain why there is so much climate disruption, and that whereas we ought to prepare for that, that CO2 as such, is possibly not the cause ot it: http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/n ... _pole.html

If the poles are shifting this fast, should we be surprised that polar bears are losing their habitat? Why point the finger at carbon dioxide?
User avatar
manas
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anagarika, Dan74 and 9 guests