Global Warming: Recent Data

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:29 pm

manas wrote:Hi all,

I would like to bring some information to everyone's attention, which could possibly explain why there is so much climate disruption, and that whereas we ought to prepare for that, that CO2 as such, is possibly not the cause ot it: http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/n ... _pole.html

If the poles are shifting this fast, should we be surprised that polar bears are losing their habitat? Why point the finger at carbon dioxide?


Hi, manas. Thanks for bringing this news to our attention. Interesting, but I am not really certain how a polar shift, in this case a wandering, could have any effect on global warming, whereas a steady rise in CO2 and other greenhouse gases seems to correlate well with global warming. The article you provided seems to be totally devoid of any explanation as to why this would be so, either.

Would you care to explain your idea of how the change in polarity could be related?

Thanks,

Ron
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:51 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:
chownah wrote:Cropping land to produce oil for biodiesel brings to mind the question of how much land do we want to stop using for feeding the world's population and to start using so that the richest 25% of the population can jump in their car and go cruising for tofu McNuggets.
chownah


This is an excellent point, chownah, ...
Another approach mentioned was in a olive canning plant, where they used olive pits as a renewable biofuel to help with processing and manufacturing fuel.
There are many, many opportunities to utilize what would otherwise be considered waste to reduce energy usage. Every pound of biofuel utilized means one pound of fossil fuel which does not have to be burned. :thumbsup:

Just a couple more thoughts on biofuels ...
Chownah is correct: Growing crops on good farming land just to turn it into fuel deprives us of farming land and sends food prices up.
Ron, you're right, too: using waste is a great idea. Here in NQ we use (some of) our sugar-cane waste (bagasse), and in arid areas further north and west there are programmes to turn invasive woody weeds into biofuels.
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Environmental_effects is (as so often) a good starting point for further reading.

More generally, we need to make sure we're using and recycling all of our resources at the highest possible level.
If it's food, we shouldn't be feeding it to cars or to cattle. ("Everyone knows" beef production is environmentally expensive but "everyone knows" this because all the studies assume feedlot fattening as is done so widely in the US. It's not true, though, when production is purely openly rangeland grazing, and in semi-arid country beef is often the most productive use of the land because you can't grow crops on it. (No, I am not saying we should eat meat - different argument, different time.) )
If it's waste, we should be feeding it to cars or to cattle rather than burying it - but we should be burying it rather than just burning it where it lies. Or we could burn it in power stations rather than bury it. Etc.

Ron, I would encourage you to find the most recent information on this and related issues. Climate science and renewables technology have been moving so fast in the last twenty years that anything more than five years old needs to be treated with caution and anything more than ten years old has probably been superseded. That's one reason I like wikipedia so much, if only as a starting point - it may be only 80 - 90% correct but it's usually 95% up to date.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:48 am

Kim: " Ron, I would encourage you to find the most recent information on this and related issues. Climate science and renewables technology have been moving so fast in the last twenty years that anything more than five years old needs to be treated with caution and anything more than ten years old has probably been superseded. That's one reason I like wikipedia so much, if only as a starting point - it may be only 80 - 90% correct but it's usually 95% up to date."


Thanks, Kim. The documentary, which I cited was from 2014. I searched for the articles I included in my last response, because they were relevant to the topic being discussed. For example the process you mentioned regarding use of sugar-cane dregs and stalks was included in the documentary, which I forgot to mention. I thought the relevant point, which I cited, was the research and engineering efforts being put forth to decompose cellulosics for use as biofuels. Sugar cane stalks and dregs are high in cellulose as are corn stalks, bark from trees, the stalks from the conola plants and etc.

What is cellulose? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose

I appreciate the recommendation for WIKI's as for their being current. Hope the one I included above meets your specs. :smile: I will look for that in the future.

Thanks again for sharing your experience and insights.

Ron
Last edited by Ron-The-Elder on Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
What Makes an Elder? :
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-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby chownah » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:41 am

I am not against making and using biofuels. In some cases it is a good thing probably.

The problem with using agriculture waste to make biofuels is that once Industrial agriculture gets into the act it will be "either it is profit or it is waste". See those invasive woody weeds over there? (do you mean where the water fowl make their nests?) They provide no profit as they are so they are waste and by converting them into fuel we can make a profit. See those trees over there? (Do you mean the ones where the small animals live and bees make their nests and the birds too?). The trees aren't good for pulp or wood and there is no profit to be made from those small animals, bees, and birds so it is all waste but we can make fuel from the trees and thus make a profit.

Crop waste? I am an organic farmer. I have no crop waste. Crop waste is a fabrication of agribusiness....if it doesn't make a profit then it is wasted. Nature does not have crop waste or waste of any kind. Everything that was alive is used by nature to create life........everything that was alive once is used by agribusiness to create a sterile world......how much life is in the burning of biofuels?

Crop waste? The amount of crop waste produced is a direct measure of how out of touch people are with nature.
chownah

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:11 am

chownah wrote:I am not against making and using biofuels. In some cases it is a good thing probably.

The problem with using agriculture waste to make biofuels is that once Industrial agriculture gets into the act it will be "either it is profit or it is waste". See those invasive woody weeds over there? (do you mean where the water fowl make their nests?) They provide no profit as they are so they are waste and by converting them into fuel we can make a profit. See those trees over there? (Do you mean the ones where the small animals live and bees make their nests and the birds too?). The trees aren't good for pulp or wood and there is no profit to be made from those small animals, bees, and birds so it is all waste but we can make fuel from the trees and thus make a profit.

Crop waste? I am an organic farmer. I have no crop waste. Crop waste is a fabrication of agribusiness....if it doesn't make a profit then it is wasted. Nature does not have crop waste or waste of any kind. Everything that was alive is used by nature to create life........everything that was alive once is used by agribusiness to create a sterile world......how much life is in the burning of biofuels?

Crop waste? The amount of crop waste produced is a direct measure of how out of touch people are with nature.
chownah

:clap: :clap:
Good points, made well and clearly!
The only area I might disagree with concerns invasive weeds: Australia has an outstanding :toilet: record of introducing species of plants and animals which run amok over the landscape - rabbits
Image
prickly pear
Image
cane toads
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/02/22/drying-out-the-cane-toad-invasion/
Disasters like the above have made many of us severely antipathetic to any prospect of a repeat. :jedi:

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:00 pm

chownah: "Crop waste? I am an organic farmer. I have no crop waste. Crop waste is a fabrication of agribusiness....if it doesn't make a profit then it is wasted. Nature does not have crop waste or waste of any kind. Everything that was alive is used by nature to create life........everything that was alive once is used by agribusiness to create a sterile world......how much life is in the burning of biofuels?

Crop waste? The amount of crop waste produced is a direct measure of how out of touch people are with nature.
chownah"


Wow! All excellent points! I support your reasoning and logic without question.

The other issue in question and under discussion here is which agricultural processes reduce atmospheric CO2 to acceptable concentrations, or are "carbon neutral", and which processes increase green house gas levels,thereby increasing global warming?

car·bon-neu·tral
adjective
making no net release of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, especially through offsetting emissions by planting trees.


I personally experience this all too real choice right in my own backyard every spring and summer as I have chosen to have a compost pile for my future-gardens, which is deposited by me from what would otherwise be called "waste" all along the East perimeter of our property, while my neighbor, just to our North-East piles what he considers to be dead wood, drops from his trees, which he saves for a large bonfire party, which he ritually conducts just before the first winter snowfall in Autumn. Since we have a critter wind block (and sunblock) row of nut (oak & walnut) and sweet sap trees (Maples) and wild berries (blue & black) laden underbrush along the south and north sides of the property, we experience an abundance of birds, squirrels, and chipmunks, just as you so expertly pointed out, which nature does not consider to be waste, but resources to support life. Since even my so-called agri-waste is not sufficient for supporting the local fauna, we also purchase a hundred pound bag of "bird feed" as supplement , which is placed in a large hanging feeder just outside our backyard dog-run fence.

In addition we plant annuals purchased from Home Depot and display them on the front porch in planters. Annuals and perennial spices are also hung from standing racks in the back yard to prevent the dog from digging them up. Hence, we have named this home arrangement "The Hanging Gardens of Hampton", in homage of the area of New Hampshire in which we reside.

My wife keeps "bugging" me to build and install "bat houses", but I have so far resisted due to my fear of bats from growing up with actor Bela Lugosi's late night vampire movies. :thinking:

Image

Image
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But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:22 pm

Geological Sequestration of CO2

The following article discusses methods of sequestering CO2 through reactions with various mineral compounds:

http://web.stanford.edu/~gebjr/09%20GCE ... 0et%20al.2).pdf

I found several following definitions and additional readings to be helpful in understanding this very interesting process:

Metamorphic Ultramafic Rock:

Metamorphic ultramafic rocks
Metamorphism of ultramafic rocks in the presence of water and/or carbon dioxide results in two main classes of metamorphic ultramafic rock; talc carbonate and serpentinite.
Talc carbonation reactions occur in ultramafic rocks at lower greenschist through to granulite facies metamorphism when the rock in question is subjected to metamorphism and the metamorphic fluid has more than 10% molar proportion of CO2 (carbon dioxide).
When such metamorphic fluids have less than 10% molar proportion of CO2, reactions favor serpentinisation, resulting in chlorite-serpentine-amphibole type assemblages.


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramafic_rock

Brucite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucite

Chrysotile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysotile

Forsterite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsterite

Magnesite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesite

Nesquihonite: (Magnesium Carbonate) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_carbonate

Olivine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine

Quartz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz

Serpentinite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinite

Talc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talc

Upon review, in consideration of the sequestration reactions displayed on page 14, Table 1: It occurred to me that acidification of rain water would reverse many of the stabilization reactions binding CO2. Therefore, acid rain needs to be addressed along with rising levels of CO2 if this method of sequestration is to be utilized.

Image

Interestingly carbondioxide in water forms carbonic acid:

Image

Image

So, looks like we are screwed before we even start unless we conduct these sequestrations in basic conditions. Sounds like the sequestration of CO2 in concrete all over again! :cry:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:39 pm

Interestingly carbon dioxide in water forms carbonic acid:

You can say "interestingly", Ron, but corals and fish would say (if they could) "disastrously". The oceans are becoming more acidic and the consequences are not nice at all - see http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ocean-acidification-hits-great-barrier-reef/.
There are subtler effects, too:
Fish on Acid: Will Ocean Acidification Drive Fish Crazy? Presented by Professor Philip Munday

The oceans absorbs about one third of the carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted by human activity into the atmosphere. Global warming would be worse if this were not happening, but there is a cost, because the uptake of additional CO2 changes the ocean’s chemistry, causing it to become more acidic. I this talk I will examine the potential effects of ocean acidification on reef fishes. New research shows that higher CO2 levels in the ocean impairs fish sensory systems and alters their behaviour. Juvenile fish no longer respond properly to smells and sounds in their environment, such as the scent of predators. They are unable to learn and even become attracted to sensory cues they would normally avoid. What causes these behavioural changes and will fish be able to adapt quickly enough to cope with this threat?


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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:58 am

Hi, Kim.

Thanks for the link. What I thought interesting was the fact that experimenters seemed to overlook the fact that sequestration of CO2 in various minerals is easily reversed as soon as it rains. Additionally, as you point out, those who state that oceans sequester CO2 (a fact) overlook another fact, which is that the CO2 is in equilibrium with Carbonic acid via the reaction I placed in my previous post, and that the shells of mollusks, crabs, and coral then begin to dissolve, which reverses the sequestration of CO2 in those forms, which adds to the CO2 in the ocean, which in turn increases the acidity. This is known as a cascade effect, which is very disturbing.

Chemical Composition of Mollusk Shells:
The formation of a shell in molluscs appears to be related to the secretion of ammonia, which originates from urea. The presence of an ammonium ion raises the pH of the extrapallial fluid, favouring the deposition of calcium carbonate. This mechanism has been proposed not only for molluscs, but also for other unrelated mineralizing lineages.[26]
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollusc_shell

Chemical Composition of Crustacean Exoskeletons: http://www.academia.edu/3497215/The_composition_of_the_exoskeleton_of_two_crustacea_The_American_lobster_Homarus_americanus_and_the_edible_crab_Cancer_pagurus

Chemical Composition of Coral: : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_calcium



"Real Climate" reported on this problem back in 2005 and came to the same conclusion as I did last night when studying the Mineral Sequestration Research Article.

Most of the carbon in seawater is in the form of HCO3-, while the concentrations of CO32- and dissolved CO2 are one and two orders of magnitude lower, respectively. The equilibrium reaction for CO2 chemistry in seawater that most cogently captures its behavior is

CO2 + CO32- + H2O == 2 HCO3-

where I am using double equal signs as double arrows, denoting chemical equilibrium. Since this is a chemical equilibrium, Le Chatlier’s principal states that a perturbation, by say the addition of CO2, will cause the equilibrium to shift in such a way as to minimize the perturbation. In this case, it moves to the right. The concentration of CO2 goes up, while the concentration of CO32- goes down. The concentration of HCO3- goes up a bit, but there is so much HCO3- that the relative change in HCO3- is smaller than the changes are for CO2 and CO32-. It works out in the end that CO2 and CO32- are very nearly inversely related to each other, as if CO2 times CO32- equaled a constant.

Coral reefs are built from limestone by the reaction Ca2+ + CO32- == CaCO3, where Ca is calcium. Acidifying the ocean decreases the concentration of CO32- ions, which by le Chatlier’s principal shifts the equilibrium toward the left, tending to dissolve CaCO3. Note that this is a sort of counter-intuitive result, that adding CO2 should make reefs dissolve rather than pushing carbon into making more reefs. It’s all because of those H+ ions.

- See more at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... 5CcDm.dpuf


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... -emission/

All I can say is: " Holy Crap!"
What Makes an Elder? :
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But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:16 am

Useful Links:

IPCC Faq's Index: https://www.ipcc.unibe.ch/publications/ ... Index.html

Radiative Forcing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

NASA Real Time Updates: http://newsblogged.com/space-news-latest-real-time-updates-nasa-image-of-the-day

Real Climate: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... tart-here/
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:20 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Hi, Kim.

Thanks for the link. What I thought interesting was the fact that experimenters seemed to overlook the fact that sequestration of CO2 in various minerals is easily reversed as soon as it rains. Additionally, as you point out, those who state that oceans sequester CO2 (a fact) overlook another fact, which is that the CO2 is in equilibrium with Carbonic acid via the reaction I placed in my previous post, and that the shells of mollusks, crabs, and coral then begin to dissolve, which reverses the sequestration of CO2 in those forms, which adds to the CO2 in the ocean, which in turn increases the acidity. This is known as a cascade effect, which is very disturbing.
...
All I can say is: " Holy Crap!"

Indeed.
Big problems for all sea life and :toilet: time for coral reefs (more here: http://coralstory.blogspot.com.au/2008/06/grief-in-time.html)
All we can do is try to stop adding to the problem.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby cooran » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:37 am

Hi Kim,

We can also support groups like Greenpeace in their efforts:

http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/en/ ... from-coal/

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:39 am

Fuel Cells Offer Means of Eliminating CO2 Emissions Resulting from Transportation and Cogeneration Equipment Operations

:coffee: Here is an article re. several companies in which I have invested for many years. Interestingly, General Electric (GE) is now entering the fuel cell market with both feet, which indicates to me that smaller companies will be under a great deal of pressure, and possibly be targets of acquisition, which is a good (profitable) opportunity for stockholders of those small companies.

The fuel cell sector has been very volatile, resulting in investment opportunities and risk of market losses for those willing to trade in these markets, but is getting more interesting for long term investors. Although I still believe fuel cell companies, especially the smaller ones are not an investment for the weak of heart, mind or shallow of pockets, as no one can truly predict to which alternate energy investment sector "The Fickle Finger of Fate" will point next. One thing for certain, we all personally have to do something quickly (immediately) about rising greenhouse gas levels in our atmosphere and the resulting acidification of our planet's rivers and oceans. Fuel Cells are but one possible solution of many alternative energy means to combustion of fossil fuels.

Recently, Japan's government announced that they see that they can no longer sit on their hands with regard to rising CO2 levels and pollution, and is therefore offering incentives to the fuel cell industry because of its CO2 free capabilities. :

Summary
The subsidies from the Japanese government will increase the demand for fuel cells.
Japan's 25-year plan will cause the country to import fuel cells, which will create an opportunity for fuel cell manufacturers.
General Electric's decision to enter the fuel cell segment will put considerable pressure on smaller players.
Volatility is the name of the game for the stocks operating in the fuel cell manufacturing sector. These stocks tend to take wild swings on a small piece of news, creating an opportunity for the savvy traders to make some quick gains. The trend is consistent with most of the companies operating in the early stage of life cycle of an industry - fuel cells are going to be an important energy source for a number of applications and the long-term future is certainly bright - however, the short-term price movements will be volatile due to the involvement of traders as well as the emotional reaction to the news.

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The most recent movement comes due to two developments: First, General Electric's (NYSE:GE) announcement about the fuel cell manufacturing facility and the second is the subsidy by the Japanese government for fuel cell powered cars. Incidentally, both these developments have had an opposite impact on the stock I am going to focus on in this article, Plug Power (NASDAQ:PLUG). The announcement by GE is a negative for the company as it will increase the competition for Plug Power, and the prospect of fighting with a massive conglomerate will have a negative impact on the company. On the other hand, the second development has had a positive impact on the whole sector - we have seen FuelCell Energy (NASDAQ:FCEL) and Ballard Power Systems (NASDAQ:BLDP) rise on the back of this news. The image below shows the price movement in these three stocks over the last month.



As I mentioned in my previous article about Plug Power (PLUG), the stock price has been range bound for some time now and it has established $5 as the resistance level. Finally, the stock was able to break the resistance level during the last week on the back of some positive news for the sector. Let's first talk about the positive news.

Japan is going to be an interesting market for fuel cell manufacturers - as we highlighted in our article about FuelCell Energy, the market for clean energy is going to be massive in Japan due to the steps taken by the government. The Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, talked about giving $20,000 subsidy for fuel cell vehicles - these vehicles are currently more expensive than the electric and hybrid cars. Major car manufacturers like Toyota (NYSE:TM) and Honda (NYSE:HMC) has already announced plans to introduce next-generation zero-emission hydrogen vehicles. Japan is the first country to give subsidies for fuel cell vehicles and we are likely to see other governments take similar steps as the car manufacturers decide to launch zero-emission hydrogen vehicles.

Japan is particularly focused on increasing the use of hydrogen fuel cells in order to limit the carbon emission. The country has devised a 25-year plan in order to increase the use of hydrogen and fuel cells. There will be 100 new hydrogen fuel stations operating in the most populated areas of the country by 2015. During the period of 2020-30, the country plans to have 5.3 million fuel cells providing energy to the residential customers. And finally, by 2040, the country is planning to have carbon-neutral hydrogen production and reduce the dependence on the fossil fuels to produce hydrogen. As a result of this plan, Japan will need to import fuel cells in order to meet the demand, which is hugely positive news for the fuel cell manufacturers.

Another positive news for Plug Power was the research note by Roth Capital - the investment banking firm raised its price target from $3.75 to $4.75 in a research note and gave a positive outlook for the company. The analysts at Roth Capital believe that the company will be able to meet its full year revenue guidance due to the strong demand in the second half of the year.

Moving onto the negative news for the company - General Electric's decision to jump in the fuel cell sector can be a blow for the fuel cell manufacturers. The conglomerate will certainly have a massive advantage when it comes to resources and the market reach. The company has launched a start-up project, which is focused on solid-oxide fuel cell that can convert 65% of energy in natural gas to electricity. The start-up will have commercial production by 2017, and the systems will have capacity from 1 megawatt to 10 megawatts.

The potential in the fuel cell segments is huge and the major players will certainly look to this segment for some quick growth opportunity. Increased competition will certainly have an impact on the current players and the larger resource base might create problem for smaller players. As a result, we might see some M&A activity in the sector as smaller players will be a target for larger players and current players might also want to consolidate.

Bottom Line
Fuel cell sector is very interesting at the moment due to the potential of the technology and the increased emphasis on clean energy. I believe the long-term prospects of the sector are bright and we will see substantial increase in demand for fuel cells. At the same time, we might see some major players jumping in the sector causing intense competition, which might cause some smaller players to be bought by bigger players. Plug Power remains one of the most interesting companies in the sector and its market position will certainly get better as the adoption rate of fuel cells increases.


Source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2334275 ... of=79&dr=1

How Fuel Cells Work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

2013: British firm ACAL Energy develops a fuel cell that it says runs for 10,000 hours in simulated driving conditions.[179] It asserts that the cost of fuel cell construction can be reduced to $40/kW (roughly $9,000 for 300 HP).[180]


Making a Better Fuel Cell: http://dailyfusion.net/2014/07/reaction ... lls-30490/
What Makes an Elder? :
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But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby chownah » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:27 am

I want to point out that fuel cells are not a source of energy, they are a way to transform the energy already containd in the fuel they use into electrical power and heat. They are however more efficient in creating electrical power from their fuels than are existing power generating technologies. Their advantage for vehicles is that enough fuel can be carried along with to go much farther than batteries presently allow and refilling the fuel is much faster than recharging the batteries given present battery technology. Their main advantage is when used in conjunction with space heating. A fuel cell could provide all the electricity needed in a home for example and the waste heat could be used to heat the house.which would give a major efficiency bonus in places where climates require space hearing.
chownah

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:48 am


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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:18 pm

Thanks for the article from "Climate Progress" , Kim. I like the Netherlands project using seawater to heat homes. We did something similar in Webster, New York by placing lake water into pits to make ice, which was used in the summer for cooling and air conditioning. Good examples of how to work with nature rather than against it. If we could get all coastal communities to follow this line of thinking we might not only reduce CO2 levels in the atmosphere, but also reduce atmospheric water concentrations as well, which some theorize are increasing the severity of storms.

Of course to recirculate all this water we have to operate huge pump systems and install hydraulic and fluidic systems to move the needed water and air through and across equally large heat exchangers. This requires energy, which must be somehow generated, collected, stored, and utilized . Hopefully designers and engineers will use clean energy sources to do this, else we will be "pissing up a rope" when it comes to GHG reduction. :coffee:

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:04 pm

US CDC Cites 2000 Killed per Year, but Storms Aren't the Major Cause!

http://www.ajc.com/news/weather/weather ... der/ngrfb/
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:15 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:59 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Demonstration of Green House Effect in Cars Resulting in Child and Pet Deaths

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/i ... bat/ngsBx/

http://www.ggweather.com/heat/

https://www.avma.org/public/PetCare/Pag ... icles.aspx

Yes, it's a serious issue in my part of the world. Our typical daytime temps are 28 - 30 C and it only takes minutes for the inside of the car to be dangerously hot.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:46 pm

The Really Scary Thing About Those Jaw-Dropping Siberian Craters
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/01/3466466/siberian-craters-permafrost-climate-change/
This is one of the possible tipping points that climate scientists have been fretting about in the last few years - see http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/11/arctic-and-american-methane-in-context/

:namaste:
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