Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
binocular
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby binocular » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:36 pm


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gavesako
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby gavesako » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:47 pm

It's from one of his recorded talks, I forget which one. He deals with the way our perception selectively picks up certain aspects and weaves a whole storyline based on them.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
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binocular
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby binocular » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:04 pm

I know he mentions these things, I just wanted an exact attribution/reference.

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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:28 am

Here are some stories, as it has been requested. Only tips of the iceberg.

About TS






About the killings on the 2010 protest



That decision of Abhisit and Suthep to reject the controverted Amnesty Bill that would have washed their criminal cases avoiding to face the court says that, no matter if they are guilty or innocent, they are claiming for accountability and for the truth to be known. (ps: as I have said before, I have no affinity for politicians. I just wish that the court will sentence them according to the truth and justice. That is something that Thaksin has been trying to evade since he run from the country)

There are thousands of articles with other different points of views, as biased as the ones that I have exposed ;) . If you dig enough, you may find signs of wrong doing and corruption everywhere, in all sides. Just google if you want to have a wider idea of the situation, but be careful: there is more than enough to get an indigestion. It is an endlessly deep issue

chownah
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby chownah » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:26 am

Yes, one can get lost in the labyrinth of issues. Maybe it is best to consider one at a time. I like to think about democracy. Should the people of Thailand be allowed to vote to determine their government? Clearly the military has historically said "no". The white paper presented before does a good job of documenting this I think.....in fact any historical recalling of the elections held and the military coups of the last 80 years will support this as well. The lack of democracy and the extent of military dictatorship in Thailand is we'll know both inside and outside Thailand......but it is almost never mentioned INSIDE Thailand.

Politics in Thailand is about gaining power and the purpose is to control the money. Corruption is rampant and so accepted at so many levels,that being in a government gives certain access to wealth which can easily be channeled to friends and family........the rich people in Thailand got rich by being connected to the gov't in one way or another......it has always been that way and is engrained in Thai society at a very fundamental level. If democracy is what is keeping one from access to this wealth then a Thai politician will generally just dispense with democracy. It is interesting to watch how politicians rhetoric changes depending on whether they are on the in or on the out.

I am not surprised that there has been no disputing of facts in the white paper.....this is probably because the paper correctly gets the facts that it presents .......just always be aware that there are many facts which they do not present.
chownah

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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:33 am


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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:28 am


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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:58 am


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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:08 am

Chownah requested some input. I am sorry if that is not what you want to see.

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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:35 am


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suriyopama
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby suriyopama » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:55 am

Mr Man, First you have accused me of spreading fascist propaganda for telling a true story, and now you are inquisitorially controlling what I am posting. Who is the fascist here?

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gavesako
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby gavesako » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:41 am

This is a good Sutta to contemplate in this situation:


AN 10.80 PTS: A v 150
Aghata Sutta: Hatred
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu


"There are these ten ways of subduing hatred. Which ten?

[1] "Thinking, 'He has done me harm. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[2] "Thinking, 'He is doing me harm. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[3] "Thinking, 'He is going to do me harm. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[4] "Thinking, 'He has done harm to people who are dear & pleasing to me. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[5] "Thinking, 'He is doing harm to people who are dear & pleasing to me. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[6] "Thinking, 'He is going to do harm to people who are dear & pleasing to me. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[7] "Thinking, 'He has aided people who are not dear or pleasing to me. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[8] "Thinking, 'He is aiding people who are not dear or pleasing to me. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[9] "Thinking, 'He is going to aid people who are not dear or pleasing to me. But what should I expect?' one subdues hatred.

[10] "One does not get worked up over impossibilities.

"These are ten ways of subduing hatred."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

chownah
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby chownah » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:42 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:32 am


binocular
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby binocular » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:44 am


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gavesako
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby gavesako » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:37 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

binocular
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby binocular » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:51 pm


dagon
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby dagon » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:04 pm

What this thread has shown is that there is anger by a lot of people and that the anger builds upon itself. There is an ongoing process of justifying action based upon actions that have occurred before. Trying to apportion blame at this time may not be the most useful strategy because that will just lead delays in any resolution - there is a legal maximum that states "justice delayed is justice denied".

The amnesty bill may have been intended as a way to move forward but it fails to meet the need of the victims of the actions by both sides. Neither side of the political divide should take any comfort from the recent mass demonstrations. The demonstration were against the government, but the fact is that many who demonstrated were not there in support of the opposition - as much as they may like to portray it that way. The resolution had to be decided on by the Thai people - it is their country and their rights.

As a farang with a Thai family - the only model that i have seen that may address the needs (maybe not wants) of all the parties is the Nelson Mandela model of a truth and reconciliation process.

May all find peace and safety.

dagon

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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:19 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: Red Shirt arsonists set fires to Wat Onoi

Postby Mr Man » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:41 pm

From todays New York Times "The Last Gasp of Thai Paternalism"


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