E-Sangha

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: E-Sangha

Postby Andreas Ludwig » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:22 pm

Hi Ben,

thanks for the welcome, nice to 'see' you again, mate. :smile:

Gassho

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Re: E-Sangha

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:12 pm

Greetings Andreas!

:buddha2:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Individual » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:00 pm

Karunika wrote:IPB is working on the problem - it was an I-frame attack from a Russian IP. Leo has posted the following message and request for assistance on E-sangha.com

Currently our forum is down due to technical difficulties. I hope to get the forum up and running again in the shortest possible time. In the meantime, get your fix at http://www.buddhist-community.com !
We need your help to restore E-Sangha site. Any member who are expert in security, php and mysql database, please do email me at esangha@gmail.com Iframes and scripts are being inserted into our 3 sites and I am getting all help I can to restore E-Sangha. We'll upgrade to the latest version of all our softwares to prevent future attacks! If you like to help us, you may donate to us thruogh Paypal. Sorry for all inconveniences caused

The fact that it was a Russian IP address doesn't mean much, though, since it may have been a proxy -- to mask the actual source of the attack.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: E-Sangha

Postby mudra » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:16 am

Ah, thought it was a hack. pretty major. If it was over what someone felt offensive, I have to say that the damage done by cutting off people to the resources in the forum was far more damaging. Will we never learn to curb our kleshas, especially in the face of others'?
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Annapurna » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:06 pm

It's a suspicion I have also read in other forums: That somebody retaliated.

We don't know.

But it's causing so much unnecessary suffering, which will eventually backfire.

It's like a virtual amok, if that's what it is.

If the hacker reads this: I bet you can't fix it.

Or can you? Please prove it... :hug:
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:11 pm

I thought I would pop in from my voluntary self-exile from the internet, to say "Hi," and saw that E-Sangha had been malware-bombed. My most sincere condolences and may the problem be solved, the malefactors be brought to justice, and order be restored.. :group:

May you all be happy and well on the road to Liberation!

John R

Popping back out now; may drop in again in another six months!
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:13 pm

Annabel wrote:But it's causing so much unnecessary suffering, which will eventually backfire.

The cause of suffering is craving or attachment. Not getting what one wants is suffering, but the cause is the wanting. In fact, not getting what one wants can be a cause for wisdom to arise. It all depends on how people make use of the down-time. Will they perhaps meditate more, or study some Suttas?

It is better to seek for that kind of happiness which is not dependent upon conditions.

I was banned from E-Sangha (allegedly) for not agreeing to change my avatar (the same one that I use here). I suspect that that was just a pretext, and that the real reason was my criticism of Bogus Sutras that were never taught by the Buddha. However, it did not make me suffer — on the contrary. Posting on E-Sangha was often difficult because the admins and mods sometimes censored my posts, or sometimes suspended my account, and some members who hold wrong views used to abuse me when I taught the Dhamma there. Teaching in such a hostile environment is not conducive to inner peace. Nevertheless, it did benefit several people. As far as I know, two young men have to date become Theravāda bhikkhus thanks in part to my posts on E-Sangha.

If you want to preserve and propagate the True Dhamma, you have to tolerate such abuse. Even the Buddha got abused, so what can ordinary monks expect? In the end, it is only diverse views and opinions. The real Dhamma cannot be found on internet forums, nor in books. The Tipitaka is just a road map showing the way to the end of suffering. We have to walk on the Noble Eightfold Path to reduce and finally to remove the causes of suffering.
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby cooran » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:33 pm

Dear Bhikkhu Pesala,

E-sangha was trying to protect its large membership from people falsely claiming to be ordained and leading lay members astray. Therefore it required Ordination information and a photograph to be used as an avatar.

The actual reason you were banned from E-sangha was that, with you as the sole exception, every ordained bhikkhu/bhikshu of every Tradition (including Theravada) fulfilled the TOS by having as an avatar a photograph of themselves in robes as well as supplying other traceable information about their ordination. Every one. The negotiations with you to try to reach agreement were extensive.
You alone refused.


metta and respect,
Chris
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:58 pm

E-sangha offers somes benefits, but its worth considering that it may also have a tendency to unskillfully create causes that give rise to undesirable effects.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Annapurna » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:13 pm

So, why did you refuse to allow a clear identification?
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:43 am

Annabel wrote:So, why did you refuse to allow a clear identification?

The problem with Chris' msg above is that it leaves an incorrect impression that Ven Pesala cannot supply proof of his ordination lineage, which is posted on his website. The major fight on E-sangha between Ven Peasala and the E-sangha powers that be seems to have been around Ven Pesala's refusal to post a photo of himself as an avatar, and if there were other things going on behind the scenes, this is not the place to rehash it.

There is no need here - and this is not the place - to re-fight the internal and behind the scenes stuff of E-sangha. Without a doubt the moderating policies in E-sangha angered, big time, some users, and it could be that retailation was a result, or it could be something else all together that shut down E-sangha. Whatever the case, we need not get caught up in another forums internal politics.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2478

All posts disparaging e-sangha will be removed. Some of you who responded to those posts (in other threads) may also see your posts removed. This is not anything against you, just to keep the flow of discussion on topic and your post may no longer be relevant since the disparaging comments will be removed.

PLEASE keep all comments about e-sangha toward your ability or not to log-in, updates you might have from Leo or another admin. over there, or for suggestions on how we might be able to help them get back online!
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Dugu » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:29 am

Had no idea there were conflicts in E-Sangha. I guess Buddhists are no exception. :meditate:
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby notself » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:24 am

To be fair, Chris, Bhikkhu Pesala was given a tough time on E-sangha. I don't know how a picture would prove that a member was ordained or just wearing really neat robes. I would think traceable information would be more than adequate. By the way was any information provided every checked out?

Yes, Dugu, Buddhists are people with all the little flaws of the rest of the human race. :tongue:

I don't mean to :stirthepot:
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Individual » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:29 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Teaching in such a hostile environment is not conducive to inner peace.

Yep.

Dugu wrote:Had no idea there were conflicts in E-Sangha. I guess Buddhists are no exception. :meditate:

They never allowed such things to be discussed openly.
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:39 am

While there may be things to criticize about E-sangha, this simply is not the place to do so.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:48 am

Hi notself,
notself wrote:To be fair, Chris, Bhikkhu Pesala was given a tough time on E-sangha. I don't know how a picture would prove that a member was ordained or just wearing really neat robes. I would think traceable information would be more than adequate. By the way was any information provided every checked out?

Yes, Dugu, Buddhists are people with all the little flaws of the rest of the human race. :tongue:

I don't mean to :stirthepot:


To be fair, you don't realise just how hard Chris, I and some of the other moderators worked to resolve the situation and remove the threat of banning. As a member of the Theravada bhikkhu-sangha, Bhante was venerated by many members and Theravadin moderators.

While we were both at e-sangha, we did have a policy of requesting those members who disclosed that they were monastic to place a photo of themselves as a avatar pic and provide bona-fides of their current status as ordained. The reason this policy was implemented was because, as the world's largest English-language Buddhist discussion forum, we did have a fair share of people masquarading as monks. The policy was mandatory and the admins would not permit anyone claiming ordination status, regardless of tradition, to not comply.

Did I agree with Bhante's banning? Absolutely not. Bhante's loss was felt very keenly for the entire time I remained involved at e-sangha. However, I am very happy that he visits our shores here at Dhamma Wheel.
metta

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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: E-Sangha

Postby cooran » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 am

notself said: To be fair, Chris, Bhikkhu Pesala was given a tough time on E-sangha.


Absolutely agree with your statement .... BUT that was about multiple other issues.

The business around the avatar photo was a separate thing and handled as I stated above.

Thanks Ben - as Paul and you were also Mods at that time, I think you have a clearer picture of the way things were.

metta
Chris
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Dugu » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:58 am

How would they verify if the person who claim to be ordained are who they claim to be? It's not hard to use a known Bhikkhu's name and photo since you can get this kind of info from a web. Only way is webcam interview i suppose..
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby BlackBird » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:58 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:In the end, it is only diverse views and opinions.


:anjali:
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: E-Sangha

Postby Dugu » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:15 am

notself wrote:
Yes, Dugu, Buddhists are people with all the little flaws of the rest of the human race. :tongue:



Well... I had higher expectation.. :tantrum:
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