And therefore, God does not exist!

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby Shaswata_Panja » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:11 pm

God may exist and maynot....God may answer your prayers and maynot..I have heard and seen too many conflicting testimonies to be sure about it....

Work hard, be disciplined, be celibate (it helps but itsnot a must), and focus,focus, focus...donot get distracted in mindless things...that way you can build up your material and spiritual prosperity and build a good life for yourself

I am happy with that much
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:13 pm

kitztack wrote:indeed the Sangha is very useful for those fortunate enough to have access one. However the community follows the teaching, the teaching doesnt change to accomadate different member. when this occurs new traditions and religions are formed.

I think that Binocular's point was that if you are isolated and don't have a community of some sort (not necessarily physical) then selective interpretation can be a problem.

:anjali:
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby Babadhari » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:17 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
kitztack wrote:indeed the Sangha is very useful for those fortunate enough to have access one. However the community follows the teaching, the teaching doesnt change to accomadate different member. when this occurs new traditions and religions are formed.

I think that Binocular's point was that if you are isolated and don't have a community of some sort (not necessarily physical) then selective interpretation can be a problem.

:anjali:
Mike
indeed, a reason why Dhammawheel is so valuable.
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:22 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
kitztack wrote:indeed the Sangha is very useful for those fortunate enough to have access one. However the community follows the teaching, the teaching doesnt change to accomadate different member. when this occurs new traditions and religions are formed.

I think that Binocular's point was that if you are isolated and don't have a community of some sort (not necessarily physical) then selective interpretation can be a problem.
A community can present its own set of horrifying problems.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby Sherab » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:26 am

Here's a pretty good video that is relevant to this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew_cNONhhKI
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby alan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:28 am

I think it comes down to psychology. Those who insist on God feel the need for absolute authority, and will not let pesky things like facts or rational thought get in their way. They're basically fearful.
No surprise to see that most authority-seekers are also conservatives politically.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby chownah » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:37 am

alan wrote:I think it comes down to psychology. Those who insist on God feel the need for absolute authority, and will not let pesky things like facts or rational thought get in their way. They're basically fearful.
No surprise to see that most authority-seekers are also conservatives politically.

Interesting post......replace "God" with "rebirth" and I think it still makes sense.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:44 am

chownah wrote:
alan wrote:I think it comes down to psychology. Those who insist on God feel the need for absolute authority, and will not let pesky things like facts or rational thought get in their way. They're basically fearful.
No surprise to see that most authority-seekers are also conservatives politically.

Interesting post......replace "God" with "rebirth" and I think it still makes sense.
chownah
That would be assuming that rebirth is a comforting thing, and assuming that politically conservative folks are partial to rebirth.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby alan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:58 am

Comfort is what they want. That desire overrides reason. They're comforted by authority (as long as it isn't a black President). Change in the existing social structure is what they fear, they are driven to ridiculous positions to avoid it.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:48 am

alan wrote:Comfort is what they want. That desire overrides reason. They're comforted by authority (as long as it isn't a black President). Change in the existing social structure is what they fear, they are driven to ridiculous positions to avoid it.
Rebirth is not comforting nor a ridiculous position within a Buddhist context.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby alan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:58 am

Of course not, but that was not was I was saying.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby cooran » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:00 am

Rebirth is scary and not comforting. I would much rather that " I " was annihilated at death. But I have to work with things as they really are.... Kamma and Rebirth.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:43 am

alan wrote:Of course not, but that was not was I was saying.
So, what were you saying?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby Dan Rooney » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:23 am

I think it comes down to psychology. Those who insist on God feel the need for absolute authority, and will not let pesky things like facts or rational thought get in their way. They're basically fearful.
No surprise to see that most authority-seekers are also conservatives politically.

Comfort is what they want. That desire overrides reason. They're comforted by authority (as long as it isn't a black President). Change in the existing social structure is what they fear, they are driven to ridiculous positions to avoid it.


The world does not end at the borders of the United States. If you head south, you'll find priests who are the polar opposite of what you seem to imagine Christians to be and if you head east you can find monks who are among the most blindly faithfully, wildly superstitious, reactionary, conservative people you could ever hope to meet.

Really, this is a Buddhist forum so it can probably be taken as read that you don't spend your evenings worrying over the finer points of Scholasticism but is it really necessary to engage in god-bashing from the comfort of a forum like this? You don't believe in God. Fine. Why not leave it there? This kind of my-one's-bigger-than-yours. Sorry, my-one's-more-rational-than-yours grandstanding is seriously lacking in grace.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby chownah » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:56 am

cooran wrote:Rebirth is scary and not comforting. I would much rather that " I " was annihilated at death. But I have to work with things as they really are.... Kamma and Rebirth.

With metta,
Chris

cooran,
In another thread (perhaps the rebirth debate) some posters or at least one expressed that for them rebirth was comforting in that they saw annihilation as the alternative.....before they were Buddhist they were worried about annihilation at death and now they are comforted because they believe in rebirth and they don't worry about being annihilated.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:00 am

chownah wrote:
cooran wrote:Rebirth is scary and not comforting. I would much rather that " I " was annihilated at death. But I have to work with things as they really are.... Kamma and Rebirth.

With metta,
Chris

cooran,
In another thread (perhaps the rebirth debate) some posters or at least one expressed that for them rebirth was comforting in that they saw annihilation as the alternative.....before they were Buddhist they were worried about annihilation at death and now they are comforted because they believe in rebirth and they don't worry about being annihilated.
chownah
And then you generalize from that one statement to all Buddhists? I think the Buddha's words about samsara, the round of birth, death, and rebirth paint something of different picture of rebirth being a rather frightening thing.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby cooran » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:27 am

chownah wrote:
cooran wrote:Rebirth is scary and not comforting. I would much rather that " I " was annihilated at death. But I have to work with things as they really are.... Kamma and Rebirth.

With metta,
Chris

cooran,
In another thread (perhaps the rebirth debate) some posters or at least one expressed that for them rebirth was comforting in that they saw annihilation as the alternative.....before they were Buddhist they were worried about annihilation at death and now they are comforted because they believe in rebirth and they don't worry about being annihilated.
chownah

Hello chownah,

Many Buddhists I have contact with assume all their rebirths will be in human form.
I remember reading in a Sutta (can't give the reference atm) that the Buddha taught a simile showing that the chances of rebirth as a human were extremely small and rare. Most of the other forms that beings are reborn in live lives of pain and fear.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby chownah » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:20 am

tiltbillings wrote:
chownah wrote:
cooran wrote:Rebirth is scary and not comforting. I would much rather that " I " was annihilated at death. But I have to work with things as they really are.... Kamma and Rebirth.

With metta,
Chris

cooran,
In another thread (perhaps the rebirth debate) some posters or at least one expressed that for them rebirth was comforting in that they saw annihilation as the alternative.....before they were Buddhist they were worried about annihilation at death and now they are comforted because they believe in rebirth and they don't worry about being annihilated.
chownah
And then you generalize from that one statement to all Buddhists? I think the Buddha's words about samsara, the round of birth, death, and rebirth paint something of different picture of rebirth being a rather frightening thing.

I am not generalizing. Do you understand written English? If so then read what I have written. I'm saying that SOME Buddhists describe rebirth as a comfort....that is a fact....that is all.....
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby chownah » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:26 am

cooran wrote:
chownah wrote:
cooran wrote:Rebirth is scary and not comforting. I would much rather that " I " was annihilated at death. But I have to work with things as they really are.... Kamma and Rebirth.

With metta,
Chris

cooran,
In another thread (perhaps the rebirth debate) some posters or at least one expressed that for them rebirth was comforting in that they saw annihilation as the alternative.....before they were Buddhist they were worried about annihilation at death and now they are comforted because they believe in rebirth and they don't worry about being annihilated.
chownah

Hello chownah,

Many Buddhists I have contact with assume all their rebirths will be in human form.
I remember reading in a Sutta (can't give the reference atm) that the Buddha taught a simile showing that the chances of rebirth as a human were extremely small and rare. Most of the other forms that beings are reborn in live lives of pain and fear.

With metta,
Chris

cooran,
I do not doubt that the views you express are widespread. However there are some Buddhists who find rebirth as a comfort. It seems that you think this comfort is delusional or illusional.......and it may very well be delusional or illusional but they have expressed that view nevertheless. Personally I am neither attracted to nor repelled from the prospects of rebirth.
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Re: And therefore, God does not exist!

Postby chownah » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:43 am

cooran,
Why do you fear rebirth? Is it because you do not know what to do to ensure a decent rebirth?...or is it that you think you know what to do but you are not willing to do it?....or is it something else entirely? With all the instruction given by the Buddha and especially how intention is a central part of the formula I would think that the bulk of Buddhists would have no fear of rebirth at all especially in the 21st century when the Buddha's teachings are so readily accessible.

Could it be that some people have faith in degenerate rebirth but no faith in what the Buddha taught? PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT GENERALIZING THIS TO ALL BUDDHISTS....I HAVE USED THE TERM "some people" AND THAT IS WHAT I MEAN.....I DO NOT MEAN ALL BUDDHISTS. After all, some Buddhists are stream enterers and I see no reason why they should have qualms about rebirth.....but then how could I possibly know what people like that would think.......
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