what happens to people who commit suicide?

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Cianna200
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what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Cianna200 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:33 am

I admit I have a broken soul and experienced thoughts of suicide to escape the ones who cause me so much pain. This makes me sound like a bad person but there is no one who I trust but what could happen if I killed myself?

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby purple planet » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:41 am

This makes me sound like a bad person


no that dosnt i dont think anyone will think that

there is no easy way out - if you kill yourself you will most likely be reborn again with worst kamma then you have now - much worse cause you killed a person

buddhism - is a great way to improve your life ! make you a better person in all mundane issues - and also much more happy and calm - of course it takes time and lots of hard work -

if you commit suicide you will suffer much much more than you do now - you are blessed to know about the dhamma - most people dont even know about it - and you are very lucky to find this forum - its a real good source for learning


I admit I have a broken soul


buddhism is especially good at dealing with depression and sadness - but be patient and you will see how strong it is
its also very logical and practical - no faith needed just try and see

I really hope you wont suicide - your life can get SO MUCH better - if you will put in a little effort :group:
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby SarathW » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:43 am

Suicidal thought are very common. As a person never allowed to gets it out of control.
Human life is so rare. Only a human can be an Arahant.
So strive to become an Arahant.
By committing suicide you can’t get away from problems.
You only replace your problem with a new one.

Metta

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Sokehi » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:53 am

I have nothing very useful to offer here, Cianna, I'm afraid that any of my comments could have an effect on you that I don't want to. But I suggest you go and look for some help, may it be good friends, some good monks or nuns in a monastery that might lighten up your mood and of course if you are inclined towards that option to consult a good doctor with that matter.

I'd like to share this talk with you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N_jjY7W_fs

May the merit out of my todays practice reach you and help you with this difficult situation and all your burdens. Metta. :anjali:
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby pilgrim » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:54 am

deleted..in view of TOS
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Mkoll » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:59 am

Peace,
James

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:23 am

Moderator note:

Reminder of the Terms of Service, para. 4

4. Members who are suffering from mental illnesses.

Dhamma Wheel is for the exploration and discussion of the Dhamma. While the aim of the Dhamma is to provide a path to the end of suffering, members of Dhamma Wheel are not qualified to deal with acute episodes of mental illness of another, as expressed on a discussion forum. The Administrators and Moderators of Dhamma Wheel request your compliance with regards to the following guidelines which is designed for the benefit of all:

-- Members who are suffering a serious mental illness should seek diagnosis and treatment from a qualified medical professional within their community. Members who are suffering from an acute phase of a mental illness, including intention to self harm and/or suicidal should seek immediate assistance. http://www.befrienders.org/index.asp
-- Members who are experiencing an acute phase of mental illness or suicidal ideation welcome to seek referral to medical and crisis services from administrators and moderators.
-- Members are asked not to use Dhamma Wheel as a platform to express intentions of self harm or suicide, the experience of voices or other hallucinations or other artefacts of acute mental illness.
-- When encountering a member suffering an acute episode of a mental illness, we should treat that member with compassion and refer that member to medical/emergency services within that person's community and to Dhamma Wheel staff.

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby sattva » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:04 am

I am sorry that you feel that depressed sometimes. I think, as it was reminded by David N. Snyder, that sometimes we need medical or psychological intervention from a professional. Don't feel bad about that, please. I took an antidepressant for over a year after heart bypass surgery. I monitor myself now when I begin to go into a blue funk considering if it is time to go back on something.

I know this isn't answering your question which I will come back to in a second. You have to remember that in Buddhism we believe that everything is constantly changing and so even though at this moment a person might think that his or her life is difficult or worse or that he/she are terribly sad or lonely, Buddhists know that it will change, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, or next year, but it will change. I remember having quite a lot of years where things seemed to go so smoothly and I was relatively happy and healthy. Then, everything fell apart. You could say that this was the ripening of my karma or that this is just how life works. I wouldn't have a quibble with either.

I am not one of the wisest or most scholarly of Buddhists so others may have a better understanding or explain this better. As I see it, we are constantly planting seeds with our thoughts and our actions. (What makes this even harder to understand is that there is no I or we to plant seeds). When conditions are right (think of it like a seed needing the right conditions to grow) the seed becomes a plant and produces fruit. To me, this is karma and whether the fruit is bitter or sweet depends on what kind of seed was planted. What does this have to do with suicide? If a person commits suicide, he is trying to run away and not deal with the karma he is experiencing. This isn't going to make it go away permanently. It has to run its course. Since life is precious and an opportunity for both growth and transformation of the heart and mind, often during difficult times, and since human life is not the only realm of existence, a person may very well end up in a worse state of existence because of his or her actions and mind-state at the time of death.

I am not a teacher either, but I strongly recommend the practice of metta meditation. One starts with this lovingkindness meditation for oneself, goes on to a benefactor, friend, neutral person, enemy, and to all beings. I think many people need to spend a great deal of time first working with oneself before moving on to others. Again, I strongly recommend the advice of a good teacher. Hope this helps, even in some small way.
with a hug,
sattva

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:49 am

Greetings Cianna,
You've been given some excellent advice. Speak to your doctor and if you are in contact with a teacher, it would also be wise to consult with them as well. If you feel,so bad that you are at risk of self harm, please get on the phone to the helpline in your country.

One of the artefacts of depression is that it makes one feel soooooooooo isolated yet depression is one of the most commonly experienced conditions. I have experienced suicidal thoughts for most of my life. What has worked for me has been a raft of treatments that include anti-depressants, a healthy lifestyle, regular sleep, maintaining important relationships and well established Dhamma practice. These feelings we get, these thoughts, they are ephemeral, transient and identifying with them as I or mine is the cradle of suffering.
With metta,
Ben
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
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but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Anagarika » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:06 pm

Cianna200 wrote:I admit I have a broken soul and experienced thoughts of suicide to escape the ones who cause me so much pain. This makes me sound like a bad person but there is no one who I trust but what could happen if I killed myself?


So many good comments from others here already, Cianna, and it's so true that when we suffer with depression and suicidal thoughts or ideation, it is our brain and the depression that is sending these maladaptive messages. Yes, there are good therapists that can help you cognitively deal with depressive thoughts, and even refer you for medication if needed.

You are a good person. All of us are good..very good. We have bad ideas, or we do stupid things, but each of us is good, with unlimited potential. Ajhan Brahm, a monk in Australia, talks about suicide, and recognizes that it is a product of the brain and brain dysfunction, He goes on to say, in his usual humorous way, that we as Buddhists generally believe in rebirth, so why violate the First Precept and harm oneself, only to suffer a less fortunate rebirth? If we feel suicide is an escape, we only escape into perhaps a more negative rebirth. The idea is, of course, to make this life that we have now as positive as possible, and to reject the idea that suicide is a real answer to the mental vicissitudes of life. Depression can be like a fraudster that tricks us into thinking something that is really not a good idea, or a solution at all....in the midst of darkness, the idea seems to make sense, but in the light of day and reason it's just not the solution.

So, the Buddha gives us this hope, this path, and this suggestion that we can be free of suffering. In modern times, we can use therapists as well to help reorient our thinking, and set ourselves on a path to better thoughts.

This Dhamma Wheel is an online community, but always know that you are not alone, and that support, be it online, or in your community, is there 24/7 to be of support to you.

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby waterchan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:17 pm

I'm not happy with this "mental illness" therapy being dispensed rather liberally in this thread, as if Cianna200 is a mentally ill person, when as Buddhists we should know that the main problem with mentally ill people is that we characterize them as such, and draw misplaced attention to that part of the person. Where in his/her post was s/he asking for advice? It was a simple question, "What happens to people who commit suicide?" and the answer to that should be a simple one.

Cianna200, as far as Buddhism is concerned, we are all mentally ill, just that some of us are more aware of it than others. You've been asking several theological questions which is perfectly fine, but the practice of Dhamma is to cure our mental illnesses, and be our own therapists as far as it is viable. Welcome to the club!

This is a good video about putting the Dhamma into practice.
Ven Robina Courtin is from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition but this talk is about Dhamma in practice, not theology.

Be Your Own Therapist (Google Tech Talks):
Last edited by waterchan on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby purple planet » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:31 pm

of course any medical medication should be taken and professional advice should be followed

if we have some chemical imbalance in our brains - or considering suicide in a strong way (i had weak thoughts in the past) - no doubt we should seek professional help

buddhism is very helpful - but we need to take care of our body (including the brain and any illness he might have) so we can practice the dhamma - so no doubt if the thoughts of suicide are real and strong than you should meet a psychologist

and if you need to take medication to keep the physical organ of the brain healthy ... than take them -

this things will help you be alive and healthy - so you can practice dhamma and become a very happy very calm and very helpful person to all other people

by the way your posts until now were very interesting - quality posts :twothumbsup:
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Mkoll » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:50 pm

waterchan wrote:I'm not happy with this "mental illness" therapy being dispensed rather liberally in this thread, as if Cianna200 is a mentally ill person, when as Buddhists we should know that the main problem with mentally ill people is that we characterize them as such, and draw misplaced attention to that part of the person. Where in his/her post was s/he asking for advice? It was a simple question, "What happens to people who commit suicide?" and the answer to that should be a simple one.

Cianna200, as far as Buddhism is concerned, we are all mentally ill, just that some of us are more aware of it than others. You've been asking several theological questions which is perfectly fine, but the practice of Dhamma is to cure our mental illnesses, and be our own therapists as far as it is viable. Welcome to the club!

Be Your Own Therapist (Google Tech Talks):


I would agree with your second paragraph if by "mentally ill" you mean subject to greed, hate, and delusion. However, I strongly disagree with your first paragraph. If you'd ever had mental illness, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc., I don't think you would say such a thing. It's not something you can rationalize like that and try to explain away as a characterization imposed by others. Mental illness is very real.
Peace,
James

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby waterchan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:11 pm

Mkoll wrote:Mental illness is very real.


As someone who was once diagnosed as "severely anxious" by a psychologist, I can't help but agree.

But I would also argue that any experience or feeling that arises from a sense of self, and declared to be a delusion by the Buddha, would feel equally real. Mental illness as diagnosed by our Western psychologists isn't the cutoff point for what is "real" and what is not.

The problem compounds upon itself when people start telling you "You are mentally ill, you have a mental condition, you are depressed, you need treatment, you need to see a doctor," etc, and as a result you integrate the mental illness deeper into your self-identity. It gives the impression that there are two types of people: those with mental illness who need help and those who are fine and dandy. That kind of thought shouldn't be encouraged in a Buddhist forum, especially considering that Cianna200 was never asking for help in the first place.
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby purple planet » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:08 pm

I didnt say that Cianna200 has mental illness - i dont think others have said it except me - when i worte it i thought someone said it before me - but it was just the TOS quote

but anyway i just said it in general i think its an important issue to clearfy : that if someone has a strong mental illnes he should take whatever medication was recommended to him

i have mental illness myself - so its all said without condescending


concept like" no I " ect are hard to understand when your brain has no illness at all- if you have any illness its even harder not to understand things uncorrectly and cause yourself lots of harm and will also make you stop advance in the path - and will stop your progress

:!: Thats why in any case we should not mess with our brain (body organ) health and take medication - while keep advancing on the path at the same time :!: no doubt about it - medications are VERY important - and if you stop using them you might hurt your progress


But i think this is off topic completely - :offtopic: so i would like people to get back to the subject of how suicide is a very bad decision - sorry for derailing the thread :focus:
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby waterchan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:35 pm

purple planet wrote:But i think this is off topic completely - :offtopic: so i would like people to get back to the subject of how suicide is a very bad decision - sorry for derailing the thread :focus:


I assume Cianna200 was asking about the Buddhist perspective of what happens to people who commit suicide, and like you answered, it's still the taking of a life, and so it carries all the devastating karmic consequences associated with the taking of life.

Taking your own life is also a kind of unwholesome desire — the desire to be rid of (Pali: vibhava-taṇhā), so the desire for suicide itself produces bad kamma as well.
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Mkoll » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:29 pm

waterchan wrote:The problem compounds upon itself when people start telling you "You are mentally ill, you have a mental condition, you are depressed, you need treatment, you need to see a doctor," etc, and as a result you integrate the mental illness deeper into your self-identity.


I agree that this can compound a problem but it can also be a help. It depends on the person. Problems come about before this labelling began in many cases.

When I hear any mention of suicide in public, I think the prudent thing to do is give directions to those whose day job is talking about it. I fear giving my own advice could make things worse given my lack of experience in discussing such things. Not saying anything at all is even worse.

When someone is dying on the street and you don't have the medical training to help them, the prudent thing to do is call EMS. Trying to help them beyond what you know to do could do more harm than good. And walking away is just bad.
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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Sokehi » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:52 pm

I found it always very very irritating that H.H. the Dalai Lama as well as Thich Nhat Hanh didn't have a huge problem with selfincineration as happened during the vietnam war or in Tibet up to today. Any knowledge about this attitude?
Get the wanting out of waiting

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby Feathers » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:21 pm

Cianna200, I'm glad you were able to post about your feelings here. Sometimes simply being able to say to someone how you're feeling can help a little.

My advice . . . would be that Buddhism may well have something to offer, but be gentle with yourself. Attempt only what you can manage without adding to your distress. If all you can manage right now is to watch junk TV / sleep, then that is absolutely fine.

Do get professional help if you possibly can, and don't automatically dismiss medication: one person once said to me 'if you broke your leg, you would use crutches while it healed. Take medication while you work through the depression.' Admittedly it doesn't always work out quite so neatly (what with depression not being quite so well understood and treated as broken bones), but it might be a helpful way of thinking about it. Of course, do read up on meds and do feel free to make your own choices - don't be intimidated by medical authority.

:hug:

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Re: what happens to people who commit suicide?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:44 pm

Hi waterchan,
waterchan wrote:I'm not happy with this "mental illness" therapy being dispensed rather liberally in this thread, as if Cianna200 is a mentally ill person, ...

The point of the Terms of Service section that David quoted above is actually quite the opposite. We do not want members who may be experiencing severe problems receiving therapy advice (or advice to avoid therapy) that may adversely affect them. Cianna spoke of "thoughts of suicide", which is a serious matter:
Cianna200 wrote:I admit I have a broken soul and experienced thoughts of suicide to escape the ones who cause me so much pain. ...

No one here is dispensing therapy. We simply recommend a common-sense approach: that members with severe problems talk one-on-one with someone experienced in dealing with such things. Advice on an Internet Forum from strangers is no substitute for that.

:anjali:
Mike


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