Why are most western Buddhists white?

[waterchan]

And of course western Buddhism is developing it's own cultural baggage!

I don't think Western Buddhism has had enough time to develop its own cultural baggage yet. It's only, what, 80 years old?

[DNS]

Tassajara, and Wat Metta also only had white monks when I was there. At Tassajara (I realize this is a Thera. thread) there are many layers of Japanese affectation, from the architecture and alters to the chanting in Japanese. I've never seen more than one Japanese at a time there.

Yes, typically you'll see more of what you're talking about at Mahayana temples, not Theravada. At Japanese zen centers the chanting and culture is Japanese, at a Korean zen center it is in Korean. At a Chinese based temple it is mostly in Chinese with some Chinese culture. But in Theravada, regardless of the color of the participants, the chanting is Pali and the practice is Dhamma-Vinaya.

The Thai Wats do have a Thai lay community supporting the typically all white monks.

And what is wrong with that? There are also numerous temples where the monks are not all white. What difference does that make?

Abhyagiri is an Ajahn Chah based temple. The monks happen to be mostly white. They follow Dhamma-Vinaya as far as I can tell and don't have any irrelevant Asian customs other than perhaps some trivial things like their titles or a few other Thai terms.

[waterchan]

But in Theravada, regardless of the color of the participants, the chanting is Pali and the practice is Dhamma-Vinaya.

Hmm, not in all Theravada. In Burmese Theravada temples, about 40% of the chant is in mixed Burmese and Pali. And some of the Pali is very obscure; there are some core Pali chants which don't seem to come from the Pali canon. Maybe Bhikkhu Pesala can elaborate on those...

[Kare]

i agree i should have qualified this post with 'why are most meditators (e.g. vipassana, shikantaza, etc) white.. or why are most communities that in a sense center around meditation white. it's a sociological question. i'm amused that you'd see it as a racist question.

Well, different people are amused by different things. I don't find this blatant racism amusing. The Dhamma is not about the color of your or my skin.

[JeffR]

There are generalizations being made here. The Thai temples I've been to all the monks are Thai, except for one that has an American monk who's been there about a year and at special occasions they'll have visiting Lao monks. They will also chant in both Thai & Pali, depending on the chant (same as English speakers). Lao temples I've been to have Lao and Thai monks. The only Cambodian temple I've been to all the monks were Cambodian.

Ajahn Chah established Wat Pa Nanachat for Farang (whites), so those temples established under it tend to be full of white monks.

The only difference I've experienced is that temples with a lay support of people who've been raised in a "Buddhist culture", tend to participate more for the rewards of community and learning to add some wholesome living to their lives (much the same as most Christian communities I've been to); while temples with a lay support of people who were raised in some other culture and have sought out Buddhism, the lay community tends to be more involved in meditation and a deeper practice of following the teachings of the Buddha.

[Goofaholix]

Well, different people are amused by different things. I don't find this blatant racism amusing. The Dhamma is not about the color of your or my skin.

Any diversity or equal opportunity initiative starts with the questions like "why is this group not achieving?" or "why is that group taking most of the opportunities?".

If that's blatant racism then a lot of western governments are blatantly racist.

I don't think it's blatantly racist to ask why Buddhism doesn't appeal to sopme sectors of society and what we as Buddhists can do to make it more accessible. This is what I assume the OP is about.

[Goofaholix]

Ajahn Chah established Wat Pa Nanachat for Farang (whites), so those temples established under it tend to be full of white monks.

Just a point of correction, he established Wat Pa Nanachat for foreigners. Nanachat means international, not caucasian.

There have been monks of all different nationalities there aand many are not white.

[convivium]

I don't think it's blatantly racist to ask why Buddhism doesn't appeal to sopme sectors of society and what we as Buddhists can do to make it more accessible. This is what I assume the OP is about.

this

[waterchan]

Well, different people are amused by different things. I don't find this blatant racism amusing. The Dhamma is not about the color of your or my skin.

Calling it blatant racism is a bit too much. Subtle racism, maybe. Blatant racism would be like "These curry faces should get the hell out of my monastery" or something.

[convivium]

there's a palpable divide between predominantly white monastic communities and predominantly asian monastic communities in america.

[DNS]

there's a palpable divide between predominantly white monastic communities and predominantly asian monastic communities in america.

For example . . . ?

[convivium]

Gentrifying the dharma: How the 1 percent is hijacking mindfulness
As big corporations embrace meditation, some Buddhists fear their religion's being co-opted by elites

Buddhism first came to the U.S. with Japanese and Chinese immigrants. It enjoyed a brief period of popularity among urban elites around the turn of the century, but the current wave of convert popularity began in the 1960s. Today there are about 3 million to 5 million Buddhists in the United States, about 70 percent of whom are Asian-Americans. The remaining 30 percent tend to be white, middle-aged, highly educated and solidly middle to upper class.

this is one source of explanation for the OP but not only i'm sure. i think all explanations for this phenomenon are either economic or cultural (of course the cultural includes the religious, and nationalistic considerations etc). this raises another problematic to mind, namely of the use of the dhamma for instrumental purposes that perpetuate the system. mindfulness among CEOs... white collar zen -- this is zizek's criticism i posted on here a while ago.

[convivium]

David -
Abhayagiri and Wat Metta vs the local thai temples or the burmese monastery in Austin sitagu. i'm not a buddhist scholar but i'm pretty sure this divide is pretty widely recognized.

[Virgo]

It appears that because the practice of vinaya is slack in general, most asians are used to slack vinaya since monasteries in their culture are generally slack and more accepting of it, whereas Westerners are mostly looking for stricter vinaya.

Kevin

[Aloka]

It appears that because the practice of vinaya is slack in general, most asians are used to slack vinaya since monasteries in their culture are generally slack and more accepting of it.....
Kevin

What is your actual evidence for this ?

.