Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

This is from another thread:

Say some one ask the question "Who create God" when some one answer "God create the world"
Can the answer be "You have gone too far .......... etc"

If not why?

No, because the question is advocating creation and intelligent design hence the creator must also has a creator and so forth to keep the logic alive.

In Buddhism, creation of the world does not apply. It is formation and natural order.

Why would the Creator need to have a creator and so ad infinitum?

I've often seen it claimed that a creator god needs a creator god and so into infinite regress, but never seen it explained why this would necessarily be so.

Well, some members of the Abrahamic faiths always ask us where did the world come from, who created the universe? So I guess it is from that some adherents from Dharmic religions ask, who created God?

Most Dharmic religions (Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, perhaps others) say that a first beginning is not discernible. This seems to make sense more than just saying "God was always there, there is no creator of God".

Astronomers talk of the big bang and the numerous (billions, trillions or more) solar systems and galaxies and how a new one evolves from the matter left behind of the old, seemingly ad infinatum.

binocular wrote: Why would the Creator need to have a creator and so ad infinitum?

I've often seen it claimed that a creator god needs a creator god and so into infinite regress, but never seen it explained why this would necessarily be so.

It might be informative to consider the question "if the creator doesn't need to have a creator, why does the universe need to have a creator?"

culaavuso wrote:It might be informative to consider the question "if the creator doesn't need to have a creator, why does the universe need to have a creator?"

I think that the whole issue around The Creator is a matter of acknowledging the credits so that people know whom to express gratitude to.

I've never thought about it in mere ontological terms stripped of any reference to credits, gratitude and indebtedness.

binocular wrote: Why would the Creator need to have a creator and so ad infinitum?

I've often seen it claimed that a creator god needs a creator god and so into infinite regress, but never seen it explained why this would necessarily be so.

I think one reason why a creator would need to have a creator is that, in order to be a creator, one must 'act' in such a way that one 'creates' something. If 'action' occurs, then some sort of change in the creator is occurring. If the creator is 'acting', that is, 'changing', then the creator is not unchanging; thus, the creator, like any other conditioned entity, 'changes'.

Everything that changes, changes due to causes and conditions. Thus, the creator (as something that changes) itself needs a creator. And that creator needs a creator. And so on.

There's one Christian church that would have no problem with a creator having a creator. That church is the Mormon church.

Why a creator god in the first place?

tiltbillings wrote:Why a creator god in the first place?

One theory: our ancestors noticed that since humans (unlike many other animals) are pretty good at creating tools, clothing, fire, etc., then the world itself (rivers, trees, sky) must be a creation of some entity/ies or other.

It's interesting that Genesis, in Hebrew, does not imply creation from nothingness. It implies a deity (or deities: "elohim" is plural) creating from previously existing material. In fact, the Hebrew Genesis itself does not preclude the idea of the "elohim" themselves having been created.

Jetavan wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:Why a creator god in the first place?

One theory: our ancestors noticed that since humans (unlike many other animals) are pretty good at creating tools, clothing, fire, etc., then the world itself (rivers, trees, sky) must be a creation of some entity/ies or other.

It's interesting that Genesis, in Hebrew, does not imply creation from nothingness. It implies a deity (or deities: "elohim" is plural) creating from previously existing material. In fact, the Hebrew Genesis itself does not preclude the idea of the "elohim" themselves having been created.

In other words, the idea of a creator god creates more questions.

binocular wrote:

culaavuso wrote:It might be informative to consider the question "if the creator doesn't need to have a creator, why does the universe need to have a creator?"

I think that the whole issue around The Creator is a matter of acknowledging the credits so that people know whom to express gratitude to.

I've never thought about it in mere ontological terms stripped of any reference to credits, gratitude and indebtedness.

If the universe needs a creator as a means for expressing gratitude for the universe, then to whom should we express gratitude for the creator?

tiltbillings wrote:Why a creator god in the first place?

To help make sense of our place in a seemingly incomprehensible universe.

Ben wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:Why a creator god in the first place?

To help make sense of our place in a seemingly incomprehensible universe.

And the idea of a creator god just adds on more layers of incomprehensible to the universe.

tiltbillings wrote:

Ben wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:Why a creator god in the first place?

To help make sense of our place in a seemingly incomprehensible universe.

And the idea of a creator god just adds on more layer of incomprehensible to the universe.

Not if it makes the incomprehensible comprehensible at any cost.

I think as we learn more about the cosmos, we might learn that a creation of a cosmos is in the realm of human possibility. Even at this moment, there might be physically based beings of such intelligence that they have been able to manipulate matter in such a way to create a black hole or singularity, by means of which a new universe (or two) can be created. Maybe these beings have also figured out a way to adjust the physical constants of the universes they create (making gravity a little bit stronger, or electricity a little weaker). Maybe they also figured out ways to set a "time-limit" on the existence of these new universes. These beings would still be in the web of kamma-vipaka, however; and would themselves be the 'creations' (i.e., children) of one or more parental beings.

I was brought up as a child to worship parents, grandparents and adults etc.
I even worship my teacher who taught me skills.
This tradition is fading away.

I think God idea has help the monkey to become the first human.
Just imagine we try to teach Buddhism to a monkey!

I ask my children to pray to God.
That is the quickest way I can teach them how to respect others.
Hopefully they will understand Buddhism one day.

Based on above ground I don’t think that we need to know who create God.
Answer to this question is depend on the level of individual development.

See my previous post "Not believing in God is not such a good idea"
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=15942

SarathW wrote: "Not believing in God is not such a good idea"

Believing in a god is even less a good idea.