Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

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Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby waterchan » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:27 am

if she were president. says Sarah Palin.
_________________________________________

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/2 ... 22665.html

Sarah Palin wants terrorists to know how the United States would deal with them if she were president.

Speaking Saturday at the National Rifle Association's "Stand And Fight" rally at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, the former Alaska governor and 2008 GOP vice presidential candidate accused the Obama administration of instating counterterrorism policies that "coddle adversaries."

"Come on. Enemies, who would utterly annihilate America, they who'd obviously have information on plots, to carry out Jihad. Oh, but you can't offend them, can't make them feel uncomfortable, not even a smidgen," she said. "Well, if I were in charge, they would know that waterboarding is how we'd baptize terrorists."

Saturday's rally was part of the NRA's annual meeting, which drew thousands to Indianapolis.

During her speech, Palin focused on Second Amendment rights, which she said liberals are "attacking" in addition to the United States' "foundational values and tradition." According to Palin, creating gun-free zones in schools and other public buildings is "stupid on steroids."

"Maybe our kids could be defended against criminals on the spot if more Mama Grizzlies carried," she said. "And [the] Obama administration wants you ID'd for that? Well, then go ahead and carry a sign too. A sign that says 'Yeah, I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.'"

Click here to watch Palin's full speech.

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(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby corrine » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:26 pm

As a citizen of the United States of America, I consider Sarah Palin to be our national disgrace. It is she and others like her that give the world the impression that we are truly evil people. As a woman, it is even more troubling to me to hear this sort of thing from another woman. Maybe I foolishly expect more of my own sex. Free speech, however, allows even the criminally stupid to speak their thoughts. I like to think that in so doing,others are warned of their mental disorder, for surely that is the only way to explain such beliefs.

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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby laurel » Sat May 03, 2014 4:33 pm

I concur. Nothing could antagonize people more than this kind of speech. My quandary is trying to figure out how to avoid falling into the "us vs. them" mentality that she so easily foments--"us" being those of us who know better, and "them" being people who agree with her.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Dan74 » Sun May 04, 2014 6:45 am

corrine wrote:As a citizen of the United States of America, I consider Sarah Palin to be our national disgrace. It is she and others like her that give the world the impression that we are truly evil people. As a woman, it is even more troubling to me to hear this sort of thing from another woman. Maybe I foolishly expect more of my own sex. Free speech, however, allows even the criminally stupid to speak their thoughts. I like to think that in so doing,others are warned of their mental disorder, for surely that is the only way to explain such beliefs.

corrine


:goodpost: :D :(

I am not American, but the more I learn about your country, the less I see such things as insanity and more as you say 'criminal stupidity'. They make sense in the light of history of the nation and people's common notions about themselves and heir place in the world. The trouble with Americans is the same as the trouble with people everywhere, give or take a little - there is not enough thoughtfulness and independent critical thinking and instead a lot of bellicose hot air and sloganeering. This is not about intelligence so much as it is about an attititude. How do you get the average person to stop and reflect?
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 04, 2014 6:47 am

Dan74 wrote:
corrine wrote:As a citizen of the United States of America, I consider Sarah Palin to be our national disgrace. It is she and others like her that give the world the impression that we are truly evil people. As a woman, it is even more troubling to me to hear this sort of thing from another woman. Maybe I foolishly expect more of my own sex. Free speech, however, allows even the criminally stupid to speak their thoughts. I like to think that in so doing,others are warned of their mental disorder, for surely that is the only way to explain such beliefs.

corrine


:goodpost: :D :(

I am not American, but the more I learn about your country, the less I see such things as insanity and more as you say 'criminal stupidity'. They make sense in the light of history of the nation and people's common notions about themselves and heir place in the world. The trouble with Americans is the same as the trouble with people everywhere, give or take a little - there is not enough thoughtfulness and independent critical thinking and instead a lot of bellicose hot air and sloganeering. This is not about intelligence so much as it is about an attititude. How do you get the average person to stop and reflect?
That sort of Palin talk comes out of fear.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
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Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Mkoll » Sun May 04, 2014 10:56 am

Dan74 wrote:How do you get the average person to stop and reflect?

You don't. Best anyone can do is meet them halfway.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby waterchan » Sun May 04, 2014 5:06 pm

I think it's a good thing she made public her honest views on these matters. It pretty much guarantees that she won't rise to a position of significant power as long as a record of this speech is on YouTube.

Or do I underestimate stupidity?
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sun May 04, 2014 7:23 pm

As an independent (party free voter), having voted for the losers of both the 2008 and the 2012 U.S. Presidential elections, I suppose by default that puts me in the camp, which allows armed "self defense", "subterfuge", "deception" and yes, "water boarding" as means of extracting intelligence, defeating, and killing the enemies of our free world governments. All of these methods were used by both admins (Repub and Dem) as means to save the lives of fellow countrymen, who are targets of Islamic Militants such as those who killed thousands on 9-11-2001, those, who shoot little girls in the head, because they want to go to school, those who use pressure cooker bombs in the midst of crowds to kill and maim children, women and men randomly such as those two followers of Allah in Boston last year, those, who are delusional believers in Allah's rewards for those willing to kill anyone and everyone in his name.

What I find really sad is when Dems complain about "waterboarding" but remain silent when armed drones strike with impunity killing not only their intended targets, but innocent persons, labeled as collateral damage.

Given Buddha's teaching that "violence leads only to more violence", I would prefer that parents on both sides of the equation of war stop sending their children to slaughter each other in Allah's name, or for any other reason. As Buddha pointed out to Angulimalla in the forest: "The only way to stop any form of violence is to stop!"

I would never again willingly vote for Sarah Palin for President or even for mayor, because I honestly think she is not qualified, and would be even more ineffectual and incompetent as U.S. President than Barak Obamma. On a more positive note, Sarah Palin is not an accomplished liar, as such, would probably take responsibility for her mistakes and wouldn't send members of her staff out to lie about her failures as Obama did with regard to The IRS scandal, and The Benghazi debacle.

Seems like the only correct solution when voting for politicians in any election is to "abstain"! :shrug:

My hope is that IBM improves their super-computers sufficiently such that we can turn our lives over to a highly sophisticated cyber-mind, that will manage our world affairs with the appropriate "peace" and "non-violence" algorithms installed. :group:

Image

Hopefully all we will have to say, when any violence arises is :

"Gort! Klaatu Barada Nikto!" .... and all will be well.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby manas » Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:I suppose by default that puts me in the camp, which allows armed "self defense", "subterfuge", "deception" and yes, "water boarding" as means of extracting intelligence, defeating, and killing the enemies of our free world governments. All of these methods were used by both admins (Repub and Dem) as means to save the lives of fellow countrymen, who are targets of Islamic Militants such as those who killed thousands on 9-11-2001, those, who shoot little girls in the head, because they want to go to school, those who use pressure cooker bombs in the midst of crowds to kill and maim children, women and men randomly such as those two followers of Allah in Boston last year, those, who are delusional believers in Allah's rewards for those willing to kill anyone and everyone in his name.


Hi Ron,

when we torture, we become a bit more like the regimes we are (supposedly) at war with. And if it's ok to torture 'terrorists' then I think we had better be on guard, because there might come a day when environmental activists, for example, could be labeled as 'terrorists' too...or any other socially dissident group. Or even just anyone who outspokenly disagrees with their government. It can eventually slide in that direction, so I hear. We keep thinking "well it's only those folks they torture..." until one day there is a knock on the door from the secret police, and it's our turn.

I know you were not advocating torture by the way. I'm just horrified and ashamed that my own country always goes along with the United States militarily, and won't speak out against the use of drones, torture, invading sovereign nation states etc. that is by default being done in our name also. Our elected representatives have little or no moral fibre at all. And we the sheeple just let it all continue, in our collective slumber always forgetting that they are not our 'leaders', but rather, our employees.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 05, 2014 2:14 am

manas wrote:I'm just horrified and ashamed that my own country always goes along with the United States militarily, and won't speak out against use of drones, torture, etc. that is by default being done in our name also. Our elected representatives have little or no moral fibre at all. And we the sheeple just let it all continue, in our collective slumber always forgetting that they are not our 'leaders', but rather, our employees.


The underlying reality, it appears to me, is that politics is increasingly shaped by the West's dependence on the US for intelligence and military protection and the perceived importance of such. Recall when West European governments, even large powers and apparently vocal critics of the US, like France, bent over in the recent Snowden affair, not only refusing to grant him asylum, but refusing passage for Bolivian presidential plane which they suspected carried Snowden, in violation of international law, only days after feigning outrage over NSA surveylance.

That was a rare glimpse of what really drives foreign policy decisions these days...
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby alan » Mon May 05, 2014 2:28 am

Sarah is a fool. She represents the large contingent of Americans who lack reason. Don't worry, though--she'll never be elected.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby waterchan » Mon May 05, 2014 2:37 am

alan wrote:Sarah is a fool. She represents the large contingent of Americans who lack reason. Don't worry, though--she'll never be elected.


Never be elected to what? People like Sarah Palin shouldn't be elected to anything.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby alan » Mon May 05, 2014 2:41 am

She holds no power, and never will. Might be good for cable news ratings for now, but then disposed. Forget her.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Mkoll » Mon May 05, 2014 4:49 am

Dan74 wrote:
manas wrote:I'm just horrified and ashamed that my own country always goes along with the United States militarily, and won't speak out against use of drones, torture, etc. that is by default being done in our name also. Our elected representatives have little or no moral fibre at all. And we the sheeple just let it all continue, in our collective slumber always forgetting that they are not our 'leaders', but rather, our employees.


The underlying reality, it appears to me, is that politics is increasingly shaped by the West's dependence on the US for intelligence and military protection and the perceived importance of such. Recall when West European governments, even large powers and apparently vocal critics of the US, like France, bent over in the recent Snowden affair, not only refusing to grant him asylum, but refusing passage for Bolivian presidential plane which they suspected carried Snowden, in violation of international law, only days after feigning outrage over NSA surveylance.

That was a rare glimpse of what really drives foreign policy decisions these days...


This.

The US has been running the show for decades and the US government will do its utmost to fortify this position. As a general rule, governments seek to expand and grow more powerful.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon May 05, 2014 2:15 pm

mkoll: "This.

The US has been running the show for decades and the US government will do its utmost to fortify this position. As a general rule, governments seek to expand and grow more powerful."


Whether by default, due to having used up most of the national budget for two wars, or by policy, Obamma seems to be backing off on his willingness to take the leadership role in being Wold-Wide policeman. It will be interesting to see what NATO and United Nations decide to do with regard to Ukraine situation.

Who knows, perhaps "peace" will break out and surprise everyone. :console:

Hope so! :tongue:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Mkoll » Mon May 05, 2014 9:28 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:
mkoll: "This.

The US has been running the show for decades and the US government will do its utmost to fortify this position. As a general rule, governments seek to expand and grow more powerful."


Whether by default, due to having used up most of the national budget for two wars, or by policy, Obamma seems to be backing off on his willingness to take the leadership role in being Wold-Wide policeman. It will be interesting to see what NATO and United Nations decide to do with regard to Ukraine situation.

Who knows, perhaps "peace" will break out and surprise everyone. :console:

Hope so! :tongue:


I'd say the US is less "police-like" and more "protecting and expanding our power."

Hope so too of course but reality says otherwise.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby sattva » Sun May 11, 2014 4:50 am

Mkoll wrote:
This.

The US has been running the show for decades and the US government will do its utmost to fortify this position. As a general rule, governments seek to expand and grow more powerful.


I don't consider myself very knowledgeable about politics, per se, but shouldn't we say big business has been running the show for decades and will do its utmost to fortify this position?
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Mkoll » Sun May 11, 2014 5:16 am

sattva wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
This.

The US has been running the show for decades and the US government will do its utmost to fortify this position. As a general rule, governments seek to expand and grow more powerful.


I don't consider myself very knowledgeable about politics, per se, but shouldn't we say big business has been running the show for decades and will do its utmost to fortify this position?


Big business and the federal government work together so closely they're almost the same thing. There's a "revolving door" between gov't positions and high level positions in business. They will pass laws to benefit their friends in business who they will later go to work for once they leave the gov't.

And then you have the Citizens United ruling in 2010 that allows corporations to contribute their vast financial wealth to political campaigns.

So, yes, big business basically runs the gov't.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Thu May 15, 2014 1:41 pm

MKoll: "Big business and the federal government work together so closely they're almost the same thing. There's a "revolving door" between gov't positions and high level positions in business. They will pass laws to benefit their friends in business who they will later go to work for once they leave the gov't."


If you would like to see an excellent depiction of this process there is an excellent program series on NetFlix called "House of Cards".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_C ... _TV_series)

When I was a teen in 1961, President Eisenhower warned of the dangers of "The Industrial-Military Complex" to our society and culture in a famous speech:

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/ ... ndust.html

It is worth reading. You may find it interesting and worthy of study. :reading:

That's all I've got! :coffee:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: Waterboarding is how America baptizes terrorists

Postby dennis » Sun May 18, 2014 6:50 pm

waterchan wrote:I think it's a good thing she made public her honest views on these matters. It pretty much guarantees that she won't rise to a position of significant power as long as a record of this speech is on YouTube.

Or do I underestimate stupidity?


I couldn't watch the video for more than a few seconds (without sound). It's like watching some evil creature speak at you; very disconcerting for me.

The only reason I watched it was for a glimpse of the size of the audience to help judge how many people are caught up in her hate that actually would spend money to hear her.

"Or do I underestimate stupidity?" Well stupidity may be part of it, the rest being an individual's life experience, parental training, local society, etc. Better to think: There but for the grace of The Buddha go I. Many people go through their entire lifetimes not knowing and not controlling, only acting and reacting; it's not necessarily their fault or truly under their control, but instead it's the way they are taught to be "good" (which might not match your idea of "good)."
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