Trees

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Re: Trees

Postby daverupa » Fri May 02, 2014 11:27 pm

The Digha Nikaya depicts Brahmins thinking of ascetics in general as menials, shavelings, dark scourings from Brahma's feet. This is also the Nikaya that depicts many a Brahmin being shown up as arrogant and foolish, and that the Vedas are poetic compositions, empty of practical use.

My current suspicion is that the Digha was the Nikaya of preference for those converts into the Sangha from the Brahmanical religious surround; this is the one that e.g. shows the Buddha fulfilling the 32 Marks - depicted as a Brahmin teaching at first, then heavily massaged into a Buddhist shape which culminates in the Lakkhaṇa Sutta {DN 33} (a composition, as it happens, which might be contravened by the Acinteyya Sutta {AN 4.77} ).

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In any event, the interface here between brahmins and samanas would have been quite complex, but I think the indications in the Nikayas strongly bear out the non-Vedic roots of the sammasambuddhasāsana.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Trees

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 02, 2014 11:28 pm

Phena wrote:Thanks for the reply David. From what you say it appears there has been some appropriation of Buddhist ideas, concepts and even that Buddhism emerged from a Vedic source.
The question still remains, and that I have, is why this diametric view has and is still being propagated.


No, that's not what I am saying. I like the image in the OP with Buddhism and Jainism emerging from a non-Vedic Shramana root.
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Re: Trees

Postby Phena » Sat May 03, 2014 12:06 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
Phena wrote:Thanks for the reply David. From what you say it appears there has been some appropriation of Buddhist ideas, concepts and even that Buddhism emerged from a Vedic source.
The question still remains, and that I have, is why this diametric view has and is still being propagated.


No, that's not what I am saying. I like the image in the OP with Buddhism and Jainism emerging from a non-Vedic Shramana root.
I think you maybe misunderstanding my view on this David. My question is why has there been propagation of the idea that Buddhism arose from a Vedic source, when it is clear from the Nikayas that this is unlikely? Or as you mention in your article “Contrary to popular belief …”. I am questioning, ‘the why’ this “popular belief” has emerged and still has currency.
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Re: Trees

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat May 03, 2014 12:21 am

Okay, I see what you mean. Yes, this is true. I suppose because people misinterpret Brahmanism as being the same as Hinduism and thinking that Brahmanism has been around longer. But we know that the Shramana tradition / root has been around probably just as long, if not longer than Brahmanism. And then people see the concepts of nirvana, karma, etc. and assume it all came from Hinduism when in fact these terms were around before Hinduism and have very different meanings from one Dharmic religion to another.
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Re: Trees

Postby Ben » Sat May 03, 2014 10:00 am

Real trees

image.jpg
image.jpg (57.95 KiB) Viewed 50 times
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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