Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

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Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby cooran » Tue May 06, 2014 4:34 am

Is this something the Buddha would ever have done regarding another religion?

Sri Lankan monks in court accused of insulting Koran
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-05/a ... an/5432110

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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Mkoll » Tue May 06, 2014 4:48 am

cooran wrote:Is this something the Buddha would ever have done regarding another religion?


This? "...making disparaging remarks against the Islamic holy book after bursting into a meeting of religious leaders last month."

No.
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Dan74 » Tue May 06, 2014 9:19 am

it makes complete kammic sense in the light of recent history. Sad, but almost inevitable.
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby SDC » Tue May 06, 2014 4:59 pm

cooran wrote:Is this something the Buddha would ever have done regarding another religion?


This sort of thing is low-level, worldly nonsense, and the Buddha would have never engaged with it in the manner of the four monks in this situation. While I assume their intentions were ultimately good (at least as far as they could see - perhaps to "protect" something), they went out and completely misrepresented the dhamma.
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Sokehi » Wed May 07, 2014 6:26 pm

It might be as good for Bhikkhus and Bhikkunis to abstay from critisicing other believes... as well as staying away from politics.
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 6:29 pm

Sokehi wrote:... as well as staying away from politics.


Isn't that one of the rules in the Vinaya? That monastics should not involve themselves in politics?
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Modus.Ponens » Wed May 07, 2014 8:06 pm

Mkoll wrote:
cooran wrote:Is this something the Buddha would ever have done regarding another religion?


This? "...making disparaging remarks against the Islamic holy book after bursting into a meeting of religious leaders last month."

No.


I obviously agree that the Buddha would probably not do this _ regardless of the fact that there's nothing holy about that book.

But just imagine this hypothetical scenario: if there were 1.5 billion scientologists in the world, would you feel safe?

I assume not. So why do people assume otherwise regarding islam? Is it because it was formed 1400 years ago? At 600 AD were all people honest people? There were no false gurus 1400 years ago?
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby cooran » Wed May 07, 2014 8:40 pm

Hello mp, all,

I live in Australia which is a multi-cultural Society. I have some close friends who are practicing Muslims, they wear the hijab and some are in arranged marriages. I attend the occasional social function with their friends and families. Wonderful people. I have no qualms should their numbers increase.
We have on occasion compared many of the Teachings of their Prophet with those of the Buddha and found many similarities.

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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby BlackBird » Wed May 07, 2014 9:16 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
cooran wrote:Is this something the Buddha would ever have done regarding another religion?


This? "...making disparaging remarks against the Islamic holy book after bursting into a meeting of religious leaders last month."

No.


I obviously agree that the Buddha would probably not do this _ regardless of the fact that there's nothing holy about that book.

But just imagine this hypothetical scenario: if there were 1.5 billion scientologists in the world, would you feel safe?

I assume not. So why do people assume otherwise regarding islam? Is it because it was formed 1400 years ago? At 600 AD were all people honest people? There were no false gurus 1400 years ago?


Whether a teaching is right or not, whether it has 5 followers or a billion should be of no consequence to the practical reality of your quest to see things as they really are. The time when the Buddha's teachings disappear is approaching, but we are blessed, no, not even - We've won the god damn lottery to be sitting here in this age with all the Buddha's words and teachings at our fingertips.

These misguided men have got their priorities wrong, for them they feel the need to protect their religion rather than making an effort to realize the teachings their Lord has layed out. They have wrongly grasped the snake, and anyone who puts some worldly matter before the quest for enlightenment is in a similar boat. Sangsara is without discoverable beginning, and thus the Dhamma is also, as long as there is existence there will be Dhamma, so it doesn't matter whether the Islamists take over the world or whether they do their own thing in their own lands, or whether they migrate to your country and cause social tension, as long as one hasn't realized the Buddha's teachings, it is merely a distraction, and if the Blessed One were around today he would surely attempt to set everyone's priorities straight. The Dhamma is the way things really are, it can more than stand up to a few good knocks from monotheistic ignorance, it doesn't need misguided and foolish men to run around starting 'holy wars'.

I would echo what Chris has said above about the ability of Muslims to live in harmony with us Buddhists. I have a Muslim friend who has a lot of time for other practices, including Buddhism, and I am encouraged to think that there are many others like him.

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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu May 08, 2014 1:39 am

BlackBird wrote:Whether a teaching is right or not, whether it has 5 followers or a billion should be of no consequence to the practical reality of your quest to see things as they really are. The time when the Buddha's teachings disappear is approaching, but we are blessed, no, not even - We've won the god damn lottery to be sitting here in this age with all the Buddha's words and teachings at our fingertips.

These misguided men have got their priorities wrong, for them they feel the need to protect their religion rather than making an effort to realize the teachings their Lord has layed out. They have wrongly grasped the snake, and anyone who puts some worldly matter before the quest for enlightenment is in a similar boat. Sangsara is without discoverable beginning, and thus the Dhamma is also, as long as there is existence there will be Dhamma, so it doesn't matter whether the Islamists take over the world or whether they do their own thing in their own lands, or whether they migrate to your country and cause social tension, as long as one hasn't realized the Buddha's teachings, it is merely a distraction, and if the Blessed One were around today he would surely attempt to set everyone's priorities straight. The Dhamma is the way things really are, it can more than stand up to a few good knocks from monotheistic ignorance, it doesn't need misguided and foolish men to run around starting 'holy wars'.

I would echo what Chris has said above about the ability of Muslims to live in harmony with us Buddhists. I have a Muslim friend who has a lot of time for other practices, including Buddhism, and I am encouraged to think that there are many others like him.

metta
Jack


You are mostly right. But I can barely stay away from facebook, let alone not engaging in any kind of unwholesomeness.

I've had a beef with islam for a long time. Not specificaly with muslims themselves but with islam, the doctine. Obviously there are all kinds of muslims. This beef has nothing to do with muslims killing buddhists 1000 years ago _ or at least very little. Fortunately I'm geting more ok with it. Not because I stopped knowing many of the things that are in the quran, and the hadith, but because I don't have much patience to engage in this.

But at least to buddhists: stop lying to yourselves. When was the last suicide taoist bomber? When was the last suicide pagan bomber? Jain Bomber? Catholic? Baptist? Scientologist? Buddhist? Stop believing that this is resistence to invasion. It isn't _ mostly. Sam Haris brought a great point on one of his conferences. Fundamentalist tibetan buddhists are not killing chinese in suicide explosions. Jain fundamentalists wear masks so that they don't breathe insects and kill them. However, muslim fundamentalists do suicide bombing regularly. Not once a year. Not three times a year. Almost every month I hear some case of that. And what is our reaction? "Oh, right. Another bomb... ugh." If you investigate this reaction in you, you'll realise that what's underlying it is that you think that suicide bombing is the normal behaviour of islamic fundamentalists.

So stop lying to yourselves. Political correctness is rarely of benefit; only moral correctness is. For example, the last thread about a burmese monk vs burmese muslims caused a lot of indignation here. He was even called the burmese Bin Laden. I just asked this question: "Did the monk commit parajika?" If I recall correctly there was no response. Seems to me a bit excessive to call a monk who hasn't commit an expulsion offense, to a terrorist who ploted 3000. Please ask yourselves why do you have this double standard? Don't you see that expecting far, far less from muslims than from buddhists is an unnoticed manifestation that you actualy feel there's definitely something really wrong here?

Anyway, I'll try not to post any more on this thread.

Be well.
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Sokehi » Thu May 08, 2014 4:01 am

I'm just thinking about the "buddhist raids" in Burma against the muslim minority for example. Some people call themselves buddhist, or are dressed like monks, but use the Buddhas dispensation to cause a lot of harm.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Mkoll » Thu May 08, 2014 5:48 am

Just some facts here...
All this from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

.........Countries in which Islamist terrorist attacks have occurred between September 11, 2001, and May 2013...........

Image

Examples of attacks:


18 April 1983 - 1983 United States embassy bombing 63 killed, 120 wounded.
23 October 1983 - 1983 Beirut barracks bombing 305 killed, 75 wounded.
26 February 1993 – World Trade Center bombing, New York City. Six killed.
13 March 1993 – 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 250 dead, 700 injured.
28 July 1994 – Buenos Aires, Argentina. Vehicle suicide bombing attack against AMIA building, the local Jewish community representation. 85 dead, more than 300 injured.
24 December 1994 – Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by three members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. Seven killed, including the hijackers.
25 June 1996 – Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
17 November 1997 – Luxor attack, six terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 68 foreign tourists killed.
14 February 1998 – Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.
7 August 1998 – 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.
4 September 1999 – A series of bombing attacks in several cities of Russia, nearly 300 killed.
12 October 2000 – Attack on the USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden.
11 September 2001 – Four planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center, The Pentagon and into a field in Shanksville by 19 hijackers. 2,977 killed and over 6,000 injured.[194]
13 December 2001 – Suicide attack on Indian parliament in New Delhi by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. 7 dead, 12 injured.
27 March 2002 – Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 30 dead, 133 injured.
30 March 2002 and 24 November 2002 - Attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India. Total 25 dead.
24 September 2002 – Machine gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[195][196]
12 October 2002 – Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.[197]
16 May 2003 – Casablanca Attacks – Four simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafia Jihadia.
11 March 2004 – Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured (alleged link to Al-Qaeda).
1 September 2004 - Beslan school hostage crisis, approximately 344 civilians including 186 children killed.[198][199]
2 November 2004 – The murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.[200]
5 July 2005 - Attack at the Hindu Ram temple at Ayodhya, India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism. 6 dead.
7 July 2005 – Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
23 July 2005 – Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
29 October 2005 – 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.[201]
9 November 2005 – 2005 Amman bombings. a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Over 60 killed and 115 injured.[202][203] Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.[204]
7 March 2006 – 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. A series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. 28 killed and over 100 injured.[205]
11 July 2006 – 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings, Mumbai, India; a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai. 209 killed and over 700 injured.
14 August 2007 – Qahtaniya bombings: Four suicide vehicle bombers massacred nearly 800 members of northern Iraq's Yazidi sect in the deadliest Iraq war's attack to date.
26 July 2008 – 2008 Ahmedabad bombings, India. Islamic terrorists detonate at least 21 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 56 dead and 200 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence.[206] Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of terrorists suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, the Students Islamic Movement of India.[207]
13 September 2008 – Bombing series in Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 3 people dead.
26 November 2008 – Muslim extremists kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in a series of coordinated attacks on India's largest city and financial capital, Mumbai. The government of India blamed Pakistan based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and stated that the terrorists killed/caught were citizens of Pakistan, a claim which the Pakistani government has refused. Ajmal Kasab, one of the terrorists, was caught alive.[208][209]
25 October 2009. Baghdad, Iraq. During a terrorist attack, two bomber vehicles detonated in the Green Zone, killing at least 155 people and injuring 520.
28 October 2009 – Peshawar, Pakistan. A car bomb is detonated in a woman exclusive shopping district, and over 110 killed and over 200 injured.
3 December 2009 – Mogadishu, Somalia. A male suicide bomber disguised as a woman detonates in a hotel meeting hall. The hotel was hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students when the blast went off, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.[210]
1 January 2010 – Lakki Marwat, Pakistan. A suicide car bomber drove his explosive-laden vehicle into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match killing more than 100 people.[211]
1 May 2010 - New York, New York, USA. Faisal Shahzad, an Islamic Pakistani American who received U.S. citizenship in December 2009, attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square working with the Pakistani Taliban or Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.
13 May 2011 - Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan claimed attacks on two mosques simultaneously belonging to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others.[212]
13 July 2011 - Three bombs exploded at different locations in Mumbai, perpetrated by Indian Mujahideen.
15 April 2013 - Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev set off two pressure cooker bombs at the finish line of the 2013 Boston Marathon and killed three people.
22 May 2013 - 2 Nigerian men attack and kill British Soldier, Lee Rigby in Woolwich, London, UK.[213]
22 September 2013 - 61 civilians, 6 Kenyan soldiers, and 5 attackers die in the Westgate shopping mall attack.
1 March 2014 Kunming attack - Kunming, China. A group of knife-wielding Uyghur attackers stormed Kunming Railway Station, killing 29 civilians and wounding 143 people. 4 of the attackers were shot dead.
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby purple planet » Thu May 08, 2014 5:57 am

I didnt read more than this link im lazy if someone here read more than please share - but by this link we dont know much

BBS leader Galagodaatte Gnanasara said he and the three other monks were not guilty of any offence.


- thats a thing to consider

Police accused the monks from the nationalist Bodu Bala Sena (BBS), or Buddhist Force, of making disparaging remarks against the Islamic holy book after bursting into a meeting of religious leaders last month.

Police said the monks also intimidated a moderate colleague who was promoting religious tolerance.


do we know what happened really ? i dont know if monks should deal with politics or not - thats a subject for debate of more advanced practitioners then me - but if you have opinion that they should deal with politics than why not in this politics

the buddha did say bad stuff on other belief system if im not mistaken -right ? ("what if i act like an ox or a dog i will not go to heaven?- thats insulting my holy belief and thats how i lived my life for years as an asetic not some book") ?
what exactly is a right way to criticize other religons ? -
why do you think the way the monks protested is a bad way to do it - what exactly is the wrong part ?
what lead to them crticizing the holy-book - maybe some people were killed because of it before ?
what makes this more of an unwholesome action in comparison to other protesting monks ?

how did they "burst" exactly to the meeting ? (Even if there is a video this things can be easily manipulated)
what exactly was said at the meeting ? (by the monks : did they shout and swear , by the participants : did they say bad stuff in the meeting ? )
what specific religious leaders were at that meeting ? what organizations ? where was it held - at a muslim area or in a provocative place ? .... lots of missing detail - which each one can change the whole view on what really happened there - for instance if the meeting was with violent speakers that makes things different - if it was help in a provocative place or at a provocative time

(some of the question are to make a point - but most are genuine questions)

also : i dont have freinds at the moment but the last good friend i had was the very religious Muslim roommate and his muslim freind - but i separate the sentient being from the wrong belief system
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Mr Man » Thu May 08, 2014 6:35 am

Mkoll wrote:Just some facts here...

What are you trying to say mkoll?
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby lyndon taylor » Thu May 08, 2014 6:42 am

Mkoll your figures seem quite significant, except when you compare them to the global terrorists we call the Allied forces who have killed far more innocent muslim civilians than vice versa.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby purple planet » Thu May 08, 2014 6:45 am

muslims have killed more muslims in wars than non-muslims have killed
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby cooran » Thu May 08, 2014 6:49 am

Attention all: This thread is about Sri Lankan Monks arrested for insulting the Koran.


Please keep to this topic only.


With metta,
Chris
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby SDC » Thu May 08, 2014 1:49 pm

So as long as monks maintain a level of "morality" that is above what Muslims have done overall, then it is OK for them to "slip up", totally disregard what those robes are supposed to represent, go into public and behave like commoners, and set an awful example to the whole community of practitioners the way these monks did in Sri Lanka? It's the behavior of Muslims that sets the bar for the behavior of monks? Doesn't such a standard jeopardize the whole message of the teaching? The strength of the teaching? The longevity of the teaching?

Look, I can't imagine what it must be like in these other countries, so I admit my opinion here should be taken with a grain of salt, but if these Sri Lankan men feel so strongly about this cause then they should disrobe and deal with it full time. Why stay a monastic and bring turmoil to the rest of the community? How could that possibly be an OK thing to do?
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Mkoll » Thu May 08, 2014 2:21 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Mkoll wrote:Just some facts here...

What are you trying to say mkoll?


The facts speak for themselves, but if you need me to make it clear: Islamic terrorism is a very real and deadly threat to the majority of people in the world. For goodness sake, Boko Haram just kidnapped 200 innocent schoolgirls and are threatening to sell them into marriage slavery because they think women shouldn't be getting an education...

But enough of that, :focus:
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Re: Sri Lankan monks arrested for insulting Koran

Postby Mr Man » Thu May 08, 2014 5:18 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
Mkoll wrote:Just some facts here...

What are you trying to say mkoll?


The facts speak for themselves, but if you need me to make it clear: Islamic terrorism is a very real and deadly threat to the majority of people in the world. For goodness sake, Boko Haram just kidnapped 200 innocent schoolgirls and are threatening to sell them into marriage slavery because they think women shouldn't be getting an education...

But enough of that, :focus:


But what do your "facts" have to do with the OP?
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