Metta and "The Secrect"

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soapy3
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Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by soapy3 »

There is a NuAge belief that gets recycled every so often that a person's thoughts can directly influence reality.....like a god-lite.

Person X visualizes receiving a free Chevy Volt, but does nothing else. After enough time, a free Chevy Volt finds it way into their life with person X doing absolutely nothing other than visualizing it happening.

I always hear Buddhists saying things like "my aunt is sick, please send her metta or do metta for her".

That seems to imply that Buddhism also posits the belief that someone's thoughts ( thoughts of metta ) can directly change reality.

So, I thought I would pop in here and ask that straight out.

Does Buddhism have the belief that a person's thoughts can alter reality directly ( no work, no action, just thinking making it so )?
Last edited by soapy3 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
culaavuso
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by culaavuso »

SN 42.6: Asibaddhaka Sutta wrote: "Suppose a man were to throw a large boulder into a deep lake of water, and a great crowd of people, gathering & congregating, would pray, praise, & circumambulate with their hands palm-to-palm over the heart [saying,] 'Rise up, O boulder! Come floating up, O boulder! Come float to the shore, O boulder!' What do you think: would that boulder — because of the prayers, praise, & circumambulation of that great crowd of people — rise up, come floating up, or come float to the shore?"

"No, lord."
AN 5.43: Pañcaiṭṭha­dhamma Sutta wrote: These five things, householder, are welcome, agreeable, pleasant, & hard to obtain in the world. Which five?
Long life ... Beauty ... Happiness ... Status ... Rebirth in heaven ...
Now, I tell you, these five things are not to be obtained by reason of prayers or wishes. If they were to be obtained by reason of prayers or wishes, who here would lack them? It's not fitting for the disciple of the noble ones who desires long life to pray for it or to delight in doing so. Instead, the disciple of the noble ones who desires long life should follow the path of practice leading to long life. In so doing, he will attain long life, either human or divine.
soapy3
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by soapy3 »

So "sending metta" to a sick or deceased person does nothing for them?
culaavuso
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by culaavuso »

soapy3 wrote:So "sending metta" to a sick or deceased person does nothing for them?
It can be beneficial in many ways to receive the good will of others.
Regarding gifts for the benefit of the deceased, it might be informative to read AN 10.177:
AN 10.177: Jāṇussoṇī Sutta wrote: Then Janussonin the brahman went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Master Gotama, you know that we brahmans give gifts, make offerings, [saying,] 'May this gift accrue to our dead relatives. May our dead relatives partake of this gift.' Now, Master Gotama, does that gift accrue to our dead relatives? Do our dead relatives partake of that gift?"

"In possible places, brahman, it accrues to them, but not in impossible places."

"And which, Master Gotama, are the possible places? Which are the impossible places?"
...
"But, Master Gotama, if that dead relative does not reappear in that possible place, who partakes of that gift?"

"Other dead relatives, brahman, who have reappeared in that possible place."
...
SarathW
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by SarathW »

There are five Niyamas.
I think it is possible to do what you showed you in your OP, with limitatios.
There are lot of Buddhist stories to support this.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Mkoll
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by Mkoll »

soapy3 wrote:So "sending metta" to a sick or deceased person does nothing for them?
I wouldn't say that.

But I would say that visualizing a Chevy Volt in the hopes of getting one is most likely ineffective on its own.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
soapy3
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by soapy3 »

culaavuso wrote:
soapy3 wrote:So "sending metta" to a sick or deceased person does nothing for them?
It can be beneficial in many ways to receive the good will of others.
Regarding gifts for the benefit of the deceased, it might be informative to read AN 10.177:
AN 10.177: Jāṇussoṇī Sutta wrote: Then Janussonin the brahman went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Master Gotama, you know that we brahmans give gifts, make offerings, [saying,] 'May this gift accrue to our dead relatives. May our dead relatives partake of this gift.' Now, Master Gotama, does that gift accrue to our dead relatives? Do our dead relatives partake of that gift?"

"In possible places, brahman, it accrues to them, but not in impossible places."

"And which, Master Gotama, are the possible places? Which are the impossible places?"
...
"But, Master Gotama, if that dead relative does not reappear in that possible place, who partakes of that gift?"

"Other dead relatives, brahman, who have reappeared in that possible place."
...
So you are saying the answer is that according to Buddhism some human thoughts do change reality directly ( sans work, action, etc ) and others do not. Do I have that correct?
soapy3
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by soapy3 »

SarathW wrote:There are five Niyamas.
I think it is possible to do what you showed you in your OP, with limitatios.
There are lot of Buddhist stories to support this.
:shrug:
I don't understand what you wrote. What are Niyamas? You are saying that according to Buddhist stories people can change reality directly with their thoughts alone, correct? Which stories?
SarathW
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by SarathW »

Dhammaniyama: the natural law of cause and effect;


•Utuniyama: the natural law pertaining to physical objects (physical laws);


•Bijaniyama: the natural law pertaining to living things and heredity (biological laws);


•Cittaniyama: the natural law governing the workings of the mind (psychological or psychic laws);


•Kammaniyama: the law of kamma, which is of particular importance in determining human well-being and is directly related to behavior from an ethical perspective.

http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Payut ... nation.htm
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
soapy3
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by soapy3 »

Okay, it seems that either Buddhism is contradictory on this point, or takes the position that thoughts can directly change the universe (without action) in some situations, but not others.

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys.
sattva
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by sattva »

I found myself reading this and thinking of something. I personally have felt the effects of people praying and/or doing metta for me. Have you never felt encircled in a warming energy, in love? I have. I know when I had my triple bypass that many many people sent metta, prayed, and chanted for me. :anjali:

ps. It may not have changed the outcome, but it sure helps the mind-state of the person.
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acinteyyo
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Re: Metta and "The Secrect"

Post by acinteyyo »

soapy3 wrote:Okay, it seems that either Buddhism is contradictory on this point, or takes the position that thoughts can directly change the universe (without action) in some situations, but not others.
First of all, thinking is an action.
AN 6.63 wrote:"Intention, I tell you, is action. Intending, one does action by way of body, speech, & intellect."
Thoughts do alter reality. It changes they way you feel, alters the way you act and perceive your surroundings. According to scientific research meditation and they way we think can alter the neural composition of the brain, as an example of a potential physical result.

A contradiction only arises when deluded people expect thoughts, imagination and wishes to accomplish or create more than they really do. Things arise and cease according to circumstances.
The arising of a Chevy Volt for example usually doesn't occur by mere wishing... but I'm not a totally sure about that :lol:

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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