Space cadet...

[appicchato]

Jonathan Ive, senior vice president of industrial design at Apple.

[Ben]

Thanks Venerable for sharing.
Not that I am overly attached to imagery, but...
It just amazes me that people think they can disrespect the triple gem by doing stuff like this but would never - ever - think of doing the same when it comes to imagery of Mohammad or Christ.
Kind regards

Ben

[pink_trike]

This is the era when everything that is high will be brought down and everything low will be brought up. From it will eventually arise middle ground, as it has many times before. Time to hang loose while the phenomenal world once again shakes itself out and reorders so that the middle will re-emerge. A Native American elder recently said that this is the time to paddle our canoes to the middle of the raging river, steer carefully, and ride it out.

[appicchato]

A Native American elder recently said that this is the time to paddle our canoes to the middle of the raging river, steer carefully, and ride it out.

Between the banks of pain and pleasure flows the river of life. It is only when the mind refuses to flow with life, and gets stuck on the banks, that it becomes a problem.
-Nisargatta Maharaj

[BlackBird]

It just amazes me that people think they can disrespect the triple gem by doing stuff like this but would never - ever - think of doing the same when it comes to imagery of Mohammad or Christ.
Kind regards

Well, we're not exactly going to be mailing out the death threats are we.
Such is ignorance, I doubt the thought that their photoshop might be seen as disrespectful even crossed their mind.

I go back and think that perhaps this is one of the many reasons the Buddha suggested the Bodhi tree be his image. You can hardly photoshop a tree now can ya'

[pink_trike]

It just amazes me that people think they can disrespect the triple gem by doing stuff like this but would never - ever - think of doing the same when it comes to imagery of Mohammad or Christ.
Kind regards

I go back and think that perhaps this is one of the many reasons the Buddha suggested the Bodhi tree be his image. '

Hi BlackBird,

Can you point me at this?

[BlackBird]

Can you point me at this?

Okay after a good hard look, I couldn't find much.
I know I read this somewhere, that the Buddha disapproved of people making rupa images of himself and instead suggested the Bodhi tree. I also remember it wasn't a hodge podge source.

But alas, if I can't find it I've got no right to say it, so I'm sorry for the mistake.

Edit: This is the closest I've got.

It is well-known to all students of Indian art that
in the earliest Buddhist monuments ¢w at Saanehii,
Baarhut and Bodhgayaa-the figure of Buddha is not
represented, but replaced by some symbol, such as
the Wheel of the Law, or an empty throne. Modern
Buddhists can furnish no explanation of this
peculiar fact, and European writers (among them,
M.Foucher(1)) have generally been content to accept
the Indian view that, if early Buddhist art did not
represent the Buddha, it was 'because it was not
customary to do so'. I do not think any European
scholar(2) has noted the fact that a definite
embargo on the representation of Buddha is referred
to in the Chinese Tripi.taka. In Chapter 48 of the
Vinaya of the Sarvaastivaadins (3) there is a long
passage which deals with the decoration of
monasteries. Anaathapi.n.dika says to Buddha:
'World-honoured one, if images of yours are not
allowed to be made, pray may we not at least make
images of Bodhisattvas(4) in attendance upon you?'
Buddha then grants this permission.

- http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-MEL/waley.htm

Also this may be of interest:

Theravadans pointed to Gautama Buddha's objection to any attachment or adoration of Rupakaya (Buddha's physical form)

- http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/colle ... -03_02.pdf

[pink_trike]

Can you point me at this?

Okay after a good hard look, I couldn't find much.
I know I read this somewhere, that the Buddha disapproved of people making rupa images of himself and instead suggested the Bodhi tree. I also remember it wasn't a hodge podge source.

But alas, if I can't find it I've got no right to say it, so I'm sorry for the mistake.

Edit: This is the closest I've got.

It is well-known to all students of Indian art that
in the earliest Buddhist monuments ¢w at Saanehii,
Baarhut and Bodhgayaa-the figure of Buddha is not
represented, but replaced by some symbol, such as
the Wheel of the Law, or an empty throne. Modern
Buddhists can furnish no explanation of this
peculiar fact, and European writers (among them,
M.Foucher(1)) have generally been content to accept
the Indian view that, if early Buddhist art did not
represent the Buddha, it was 'because it was not
customary to do so'. I do not think any European
scholar(2) has noted the fact that a definite
embargo on the representation of Buddha is referred
to in the Chinese Tripi.taka. In Chapter 48 of the
Vinaya of the Sarvaastivaadins (3) there is a long
passage which deals with the decoration of
monasteries. Anaathapi.n.dika says to Buddha:
'World-honoured one, if images of yours are not
allowed to be made, pray may we not at least make
images of Bodhisattvas(4) in attendance upon you?'
Buddha then grants this permission.

- http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-MEL/waley.htm

Thanks for looking. I have some knowledge of this information, but have never seen a recommendation to use the Bodhi Tree to represent Buddha. There are many good reasons why the tree would be his recommendation, imo. If you happen to run across it later I'd appreciate seeing it.

[BlackBird]

Furthermore is the oft cited quote from SN 22.87 Vakkali Sutta:

"For a long time, Lord, I have wanted to come and set eyes on the Blessed One, but I had not the strength in this body to come and see the Blessed One."

"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."

- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html

However, my initial claim that the Buddha suggested the Bodhi tree be his image, or that there were many reasons for this, cannot be supported.

[clw_uk]

It just amazes me that people think they can disrespect the triple gem by doing stuff like this but would never - ever - think of doing the same when it comes to imagery of Mohammad or Christ.

Isnt it a compliment? An understanding that we arent going to kick off with death threats or silly protests. Most Buddhists (that ive seen) can take it on the chin and, although not agree, can respect the right to free expression and speech






metta

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Isnt it a compliment? An understanding that we arent going to kick off with death threats or silly protests.

That's one way to look at it... and that imitation can be considered a form of flattery.

When it comes down to it though... only the creators of such images know whether their intention was wholesome or not.

Metta,
Retro.

[Ben]

Hi Paul,

Greetings,

Isnt it a compliment? An understanding that we arent going to kick off with death threats or silly protests.

That's one way to look at it... and that imitation can be considered a form of flattery.

When it comes down to it though... only the creators of such images know whether their intention was wholesome or not.

Metta,
Retro.

Respectfully, I disagree. I don't think most people would know a wholesome intention or 'thought' if it bit them on the backside.
Metta

Ben

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Ben,

I don't think most people would know a wholesome intention or 'thought' if it bit them on the backside.

Whether they recognise it or not makes little difference to its inherent kammic quality.

Metta,
Retro.

[Ben]

Hi Paul
I couldn't agree more!
Shane Warne's a case in point!
Ben

[nomad]

Wholesome or not. It’s creepy.

~nomad

[pink_trike]

I don't think it's creepy. I think it's just a reminder of the reason we practice...because we all, with no exceptions, have a case of wild mind.

[Sylvester]

Furthermore is the oft cited quote from SN 22.87 Vakkali Sutta:

"For a long time, Lord, I have wanted to come and set eyes on the Blessed One, but I had not the strength in this body to come and see the Blessed One."

"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."

- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html

However, my initial claim that the Buddha suggested the Bodhi tree be his image, or that there were many reasons for this, cannot be supported.

Perhaps you were referring to the Anandabodhi episode recorded in one of the Jatakas? This was planted at Jetavana at the request of Anathapindika, as a "proxy" for the Buddha during his absences from Savatthi.

[M.Seiffert]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/g ... ives-2.jpg

its not personal