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Islam - Dhamma Wheel

Islam

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Senex
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Islam

Postby Senex » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:12 am

Islam is a HUGE force in the world today, for better or for worse, and for the most part it is associated with fear and jihad. I would like to know what your personal thoughts are of Islam.

Personally i believe that Islam is one of the greatest tragedies of the world. It has so much potential to be a driving force of good in this world if it wasn't misinterpreted by so many psycho-fanatical, power-hungry nut jobs. I am by no means an expert, however I do plan on buying a Koran so I can become more learned on the subject since it is so huge and well... in your face at the moment. Violence will never be appeased by violence. Only through compassion and understanding, as well as the removal of ignorance can we even begin to work through a problem that has caused so much bloodshed and terror.

SO

What do you think of Islam?
Words exist because of meaning; once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?

Zhuangzi, chapter 26
(B. Watson, The Complete Works of Chuang-tzu, 302)

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pink_trike
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Re: Islam

Postby pink_trike » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:36 am

Like most religions, it has devolved over the centuries from being a far-reaching brilliant body of astronomy and mathematics voiced in allegorical format with instructions for living an integral "way of life" consistent with the "movement of the heavens" - into a fundamentalist, literalistic social code controlled by a powerful elite intent on preserving their power.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Senex
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Re: Islam

Postby Senex » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:16 am

Shame it couldn't have kept it's "enlightened" state huh.
Words exist because of meaning; once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?

Zhuangzi, chapter 26
(B. Watson, The Complete Works of Chuang-tzu, 302)

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pink_trike
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Re: Islam

Postby pink_trike » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:44 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Fede
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Re: Islam

Postby Fede » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:20 am

I think it's a subversive organisation with hidden agendas masquerading as an organisation designed to make you think it has global health and welfare at heart.

Oh, and they've also spelt it backwards....

Sneaky, huh?

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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cooran
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Re: Islam

Postby cooran » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:25 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Islam

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:21 pm

Hello All,

My wife's family is Muslim and I, too, at one time converted to Islam for reasons of which I am non too proud (i.e., for the sake of marriage). Nonetheless, despite the fact that I am a committed and practicing Buddhist who observes the 5 precepts and renews my refuges every morning I am obliged to observe Ramadhan and other Islamic rituals simply because of my desire to both keep the peace and honor a commitment I made at an earlier time in my life. So, I have a complicated and at some times troubled relationship with Islam but in all of my years of intimately interacting with and being an ostensible part of a Muslim community I have never encountered the supposedly stereotypical "Islamo-fascist" attitude which seems to predominate in media coverage. Of course, there are whackos here and there and I've met them but most sensible people see them as such and keep them at a polite distance. By and large, Muslims upholding the 5 pillars of Islam are leading exemplary lives free from intoxicants and devoted to peace and harmony. I believe there is a hadith that states that there is to be no compulsion in religion but Muslims should attract others to their faith through their pleasing behavior and charity. If anyone really wants to learn about Islam visit your local mosque (masjid) and take it from there as any Q'uran is liable to be simply to dense in terms of allegory to be of any real use. Anyway, this is just my personal take but I offer it you all in a spirit of peace.

Metta,

Mike
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Postby fivebells » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:19 pm

It's important to keep in mind that .(*) Of course, many (perhaps most) significant human institutions are marred in this way. The United States in particular comes to mind. But to regard it as fundamentally a "religion of peace" would be willful ignorance. There are foundational concepts in Islam which are explicitly favorable to hostility and destruction, and as long as people hanker to express violence, there will be Muslims who justify their hostility in terms of these concepts. To characterize these concepts as corruptions of any earlier, more peaceful form of Islam would be historically inaccurate.

I don't think Islam per se is the problem, though, any more than I would think that the Declaration of Independence underlies contemporary US violence. Jihadists usually have quite legitimate political grievances, which can be expressed in strictly secular terms. The religious imagery is simply a rallying point. For anyone who wants to know what these grievances look like, I highly recommend Stern's . She went and actually talked to these guys, and figured out what makes them tick. How I wish the chickenhawks which have brought the US to its knees in the name of fighting "islamofascism" had half the guts it must have taken for her to do that.

(*) Edit: Jechbi that this is not a trustworthy source. Here's the corresponding .
Last edited by fivebells on Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jechbi
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Re: Islam

Postby Jechbi » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:19 pm


Individual
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Re: Islam

Postby Individual » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:20 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Jechbi
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Re: Islam

Postby Jechbi » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:34 pm


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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Postby fivebells » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:18 pm

Thanks for pointing that out, Jechbi. That was careless of me. .

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clw_uk
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Re: Islam

Postby clw_uk » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:26 pm

It carries many of the same faults that Christianity and Judaism had (and still does to some degree). That of superstition and irrationality. It does have some good aspetcs, from memory I think it does a lot for orphans. However it still preaches, in the Korn and Hadith, that homosexuals should be killed, women arent as equal as men and inequality in regards to "people of the book" i.e. Christianity and Jews (you could count other religions as well) as well as stoning and lashes for adulterers


As for the founder of this religion, i dont really see what is all that moral about him. We all know about the fact that he slept with a nine year old girl and if he was alive today he would be regarded as a pedophile. He also engaged in a lot of wars during his life, in many ways he comes across as just a politician and a genral


So as I said, it does have some good points but I dont think that means we can just gloss over the brutal aspects of it. If Islam was abandoned tomorow I wouldnt really shed a tear


I must say I think its good we are having this discussion, seems that the genral consensus in our time is to keep quiet about Islam, probably due to the fact that when one criticise it they get labelled a "racist", as if an attack on an ideology was the same as a racist attack on a "race".


metta
Last edited by clw_uk on Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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clw_uk
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Re: Islam

Postby clw_uk » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:42 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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clw_uk
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Re: Islam

Postby clw_uk » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:46 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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clw_uk
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Re: Islam

Postby clw_uk » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:49 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Postby fivebells » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:01 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Islam

Postby clw_uk » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:04 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Postby fivebells » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:08 pm

It makes no difference that it's not in the documents. There is a warrant to war, because the country is founded on war, and was strengthened through war. War is generally celebrated as glorious over here.

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fivebells
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Re: Islam

Postby fivebells » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:12 pm

(Hell, it's in the )


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