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Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:01 am
by Dugu
Do monks follow politics? And do they vote? If not, should they? If no, should we?

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:08 am
by adamposey
It really depends. I find that voting does inspire you to take ownership of the ideas you voted for, which they would probably consider a form of clinging.

I honestly think that monks are more likely to be actual non-voting activists than to be voters.

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:16 am
by Guy
Hi Dugu,

In Australia it is compulsory for people over 18 to vote but I know that none of the bhikkhus or bhikkhunis here vote, I assume it would be the same for other countries too. My understanding is that their training is aimed at leaving the world, so why would they want anything to do with trying to control the world (eg. politics). The best person to ask about this would be a monk.

Personally I "donkey" vote which is a legal way of not supporting any political party in Australia, ideally I would like to opt out of even turning up at the booths.

With Metta,

Guy

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:26 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Guy,

Do you know if they are legally excempt from it on religious grounds?

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:49 am
by Guy
Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Guy,

Do you know if they are legally excempt from it on religious grounds?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Yes, I believe that is the case.

With Metta,

Guy

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:57 am
by BlackBird
Hi all, this might be of interest:
Kathavatthu Sutta: Topics of conversation
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Now at that time a large number of monks, after the meal, on returning from their alms round, had gathered at the meeting hall and were engaged in many kinds of bestial topics of conversation: conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not.
Ie. Politics
Then the Blessed One, emerging from his seclusion in the late afternoon, went to the meeting hall and, on arrival, sat down on a seat made ready. As he was sitting there, he addressed the monks: "For what topic of conversation are you gathered together here? In the midst of what topic of conversation have you been interrupted?"

"Just now, lord, after the meal, on returning from our alms round, we gathered at the meeting hall and got engaged in many kinds of bestial topics of conversation: conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state... talk of whether things exist or not."

"It isn't right, monks, that sons of good families, on having gone forth out of faith from home to the homeless life, should get engaged in such topics of conversation, i.e., conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state... talk of whether things exist or not.
- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not really sure how far this one extends. But if you can't talk about it, the inference seems to be you shouldn't get involved in it. After all, politics are referred to here as 'bestial.'

What does everyone else think?

Metta
Jack

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:27 am
by Paññāsikhara
Dugu wrote:Do monks follow politics? And do they vote? If not, should they? If no, should we?
Somebody with more expertise can please correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that in Burma and Thailand, the bhikkhus are not permitted to vote, whereas in Sri Lanka, they can (there are even some bhikkhu MPs in Sri Lanka).

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:55 am
by jcsuperstar
i only know thai monks cant vote.

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:37 am
by Individual
Guy wrote:Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Guy,

Do you know if they are legally excempt from it on religious grounds?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Yes, I believe that is the case.

With Metta,

Guy
Guy, do they allow "write-ins" in Australia?

i.e., you don't want to vote for somebody on the ballot, so you vote for third party candidate who's not on the ballot, maybe even a person who isn't running, or a person who is dead, or fictitious...

"Jesus Christ," "Bob Dylan," "Homer Simpson," etc..

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:38 am
by Individual
BlackBird wrote:Hi all, this might be of interest:
Kathavatthu Sutta: Topics of conversation
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Now at that time a large number of monks, after the meal, on returning from their alms round, had gathered at the meeting hall and were engaged in many kinds of bestial topics of conversation: conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not.
Ie. Politics
Then the Blessed One, emerging from his seclusion in the late afternoon, went to the meeting hall and, on arrival, sat down on a seat made ready. As he was sitting there, he addressed the monks: "For what topic of conversation are you gathered together here? In the midst of what topic of conversation have you been interrupted?"

"Just now, lord, after the meal, on returning from our alms round, we gathered at the meeting hall and got engaged in many kinds of bestial topics of conversation: conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state... talk of whether things exist or not."

"It isn't right, monks, that sons of good families, on having gone forth out of faith from home to the homeless life, should get engaged in such topics of conversation, i.e., conversation about kings, robbers, & ministers of state... talk of whether things exist or not.
- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not really sure how far this one extends. But if you can't talk about it, the inference seems to be you shouldn't get involved in it. After all, politics are referred to here as 'bestial.'

What does everyone else think?

Metta
Jack
There's suttas where the Buddha himself gave political advice.

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:56 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Individual,
Individual wrote:do they allow "write-ins" in Australia?

i.e., you don't want to vote for somebody on the ballot, so you vote for third party candidate who's not on the ballot, maybe even a person who isn't running, or a person who is dead, or fictitious...

"Jesus Christ," "Bob Dylan," "Homer Simpson," etc..
The 'two-party preferred' system means that even if you vote for someone who doesn't end up in the 'top 2', your vote will end up with whichever of the top 2 you ranked most highly.

Unless of course you deliberately fill your form out incorrectly, or leave it blank... known colloquially as a 'donkey vote'.

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:07 am
by PeterB
So people are forced by law to turn up ? That seems to me to be the antithesis of democracy, which must include the right to opt out altogether if it means anything. Similar discussions have happened here in the UK after each of the most recent elections have seen a poor turn out. It has never progressed though because of an awareness that if you try to make Brits do things by compulsion it invariably backfires and you would have mass protests and even fewer turning up. The idea that voting should be made compulsory in Scotland is particularly droll.... :smile: That would definately bring out the blue face paint...
Anyway.
:focus:

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:26 am
by BlackBird
Individual wrote: There's suttas where the Buddha himself gave political advice.
Respectfully, the Buddha spoke of the conditions of a nation's welfare. Which is a little different than the tireless debate and argument which penetrates the political system. Politics would be well described as a thicket of views. The Buddha's advice on this occasion, in my opinion - seeks simply to cut through that thicket.

However, semantics aren't really my thing so I'm willing to let this one go.

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:29 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Peter,
PeterB wrote:So people are forced by law to turn up ? That seems to me to be the antithesis of democracy, which must include the right to opt out altogether if it means anything. Similar discussions have happened here in the UK after each of the most recent elections have seen a poor turn out. It has never progressed though because of an awareness that if you try to make Brits do things by compulsion it invariably backfires and you would have mass protests and even fewer turning up. The idea that voting should be made compulsory in Scotland is particularly droll.... :smile: That would definately bring out the blue face paint...
If you're registered to vote and you don't, you cop a small fine.

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Do monks vote?

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:33 am
by Dugu
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Peter,
PeterB wrote:So people are forced by law to turn up ? That seems to me to be the antithesis of democracy, which must include the right to opt out altogether if it means anything. Similar discussions have happened here in the UK after each of the most recent elections have seen a poor turn out. It has never progressed though because of an awareness that if you try to make Brits do things by compulsion it invariably backfires and you would have mass protests and even fewer turning up. The idea that voting should be made compulsory in Scotland is particularly droll.... :smile: That would definately bring out the blue face paint...
If you're registered to vote and you don't, you cop a small fine.

Metta,
Retro. :)
That's insane. I can't believe Australians would pass such a law. :jawdrop: