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Is ownership just an illusion? - Dhamma Wheel

Is ownership just an illusion?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Dugu
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Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Dugu » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:51 am

I was watching this movie and one of the main character has a terminal disease and on her final moments in life with her lover by her side, she says "Suddenly I feel like...I have never owned anything at all" That line in the movie made me think about how much in our society we focus on acquiring things and yet we can lose it all suddenly as if it was never ours in the first place.

Paññāsikhara
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:57 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:18 am

Spot on, bhante!

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Ben » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:37 am

Hi Dugu
For the character in the movie, she made the profound realisation on her deathbed.
Sadder still is that the vast majority of people don't.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Dugu
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Dugu » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:22 am


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catmoon
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby catmoon » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:49 am


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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:05 pm

What's the difference if the figment is in your mind or someone else's? You're still cultivating empathy aren't you?
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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adamposey
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby adamposey » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:01 pm

I'm always reminded of this skit when we talk about ownership:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 482448693#

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Su Dongpo
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Su Dongpo » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:17 pm


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pink_trike
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby pink_trike » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:43 pm

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Ben
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Ben » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:36 pm

Catmoon
I suggest you re-read what I said above and please be mindful of your erroneous perception.
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:28 pm

Novels, Films, Plays, etc., all depend on creating an illusion that we must buy into if we wish to enjoy them. Even though we know it is an illusion, we have to lose awareness of reality while watching or reading in order to enjoy the story.

is totally convincing regarding self-view.

Even if I tell you that the squares A and B in the optical illusion below are an identical shade of gray, you may not believe me. After checking with a colour-picker, you will see that it is true, but the illusion remains.
Image
The self-illusion is equally persistent. Even after practising insight meditation to a stage where the illusion is dispelled to some extent, the illusion (about pleasure) persists after stopping meditation. Only a Stream-winner can eradicate the self-illusion completely, but sill some illusion will remain in a Stream-winner.

Reading good books about Buddhism will convince us that the self is an illusion, like using a colour-picker, or one might just have faith in monks that they don't usually tell lies. :) Still, that is only intellectual acceptance of the Dhamma. To go any deeper, we must practise insight meditation — there is no substitute for developing mindfulness of the mental and physical processes.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Ben
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Ben » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:59 pm

Thank you Bhante for your insightful post.
Just to be clear, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the character in the movie discussed by the original poster is anything other than an element in a work of fiction. And you are right, for us to engage in the story, whether it be for the sake of enjoyment and/or learning from the author's 'message' (if any), we must suspend disbelief.
On the subject of self-view, you may find the work of the Neuroscientist/philosopher Thomas Metzinger to be of interest. http://www.amazon.com/Ego-Tunnel-Scienc ... 368&sr=1-1
I imagine that it would be available either from your local library or the British Library via inter-library loan.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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pink_trike
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby pink_trike » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:33 pm

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Aloka
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Aloka » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:57 pm

.

I agree that its important to be aware of what's happening when we engage with the media. Certainly in UK secondary schools, some attempt is made to help children understand the lure and subtleties of advertising and of the methods of the media in general,.. though probably not nearly enough . It is all unfortunately so much a part of peoples lives that we can still be incredibly influenced,in ways that we don't even realise .

.

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Annapurna
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Annapurna » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:06 pm

My parents picked the programs I was allowed to watch, and not too much,.

Especially American comics got banned.

As an adult, they had no impact no me. Other than noticing incredible cruelty in them, I thought it was bizarre and dangerous, that comic characters got up again after having been made flat, and acted as if nothing had happened.

I can't even imagine which impact this has on the minds of children, who get dumped in front of the TV.

On the other hand I've watched very valuable American movies as well, educative, enlightening.

Perhaps it depends on ourselves, what we draw out of them and I would say the same counts for the actors.

Sense, depth and sensitivity of artists should never be underestimated.







.
Last edited by Annapurna on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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catmoon
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby catmoon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:55 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Annapurna » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:12 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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catmoon
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby catmoon » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:20 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: Is ownership just an illusion?

Postby Annapurna » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:55 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


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