Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

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Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:27 am

Independent senator Nick Xenophon says the Church of Scientology is a criminal organisation that should be be investigated by police and the parliament...

http://www.theage.com.au/national/senat ... utostart=1


Background context: Nick Xenophon is an 'independent' senator from New South Wales. To my knowledge, he's not affiliated with any of the major political parties and hes highly respected in the community. Xenophon is one of a few Australian politicians I think are worth listening to - even if he does say things one doens't agree with or like.
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Dan74 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:41 am

He is certainly an improvement on Senator Xenophobe (aka Pauline Hanson).

In Germany, for example, Scientology is outlawed. I am happy someone is blowing a whistle on this organisation that is known for illegal activities and predatory tactics.

I recall when they would approach people in Russell Street, Melbourne offering a free IQ and Happiness test. The tactic was to snare some hapless young people by telling them they are smart, talented but not quite happy and underappreciated. Some friends di this for laughs and were creeped out by just how good at manipulation these people were.

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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby pink_trike » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:42 am

I can't think of any reason for the continued granting of tax-exempt status to religious organizations.
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby zavk » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:52 am

Hehe... one reader's comments:

Yes Terry, while we're at it, let's get rid of some other evil organisations. Shall we start with the Christians, the muslims or the Jews? Let's not forget about all those nasty Hindu's & Buddhist's too. I agree the Scientologists do seem a little wacky, (Look up the life of L.Ron.Hubbard, the guy was nuts) but to declare them a criminal organisation is a little extreme. Let's not forget that there have been countless indesdcretions from all of the other established religions of the years, I'm looking at you Catholicism.


a.) This person, like many, many others I've encountered, does not know how to use the apostrophe.
b.) Nasty Buddhists? Maybe this person has been hanging out on the Internet. :tongue: :computerproblem:
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Modus.Ponens » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:34 am

My favorite Scientology stroy is Xenu's. It's worth reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

But they're not just wackos. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Controversies

Specialy operations Snow white and Freack out.
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:09 am

Hi Dan

Dan74 wrote:I recall when they would approach people in Russell Street, Melbourne offering a free IQ and Happiness test. The tactic was to snare some hapless young people by telling them they are smart, talented but not quite happy and underappreciated. Some friends di this for laughs and were creeped out by just how good at manipulation these people were.


Yes, I actually did one of those tests when I was a teenager living in Sydney after being button-holed by someone on the street. At the time I had enough street smarts to give a false name and address - it was aeons before information privacy legislation came into being. I knew it was a crock the moment they brought out the emotion-reading machine which was an empty aerosol can sans the lid with a wire coming from inside it and attached to an old voltmeter. I just had to hold it while the young tester asked me questions and apparently the needle swayed this way or that. The other powerful impression I had was the abject misery of the young woman who was testing me. Her sadness was so intense it had a near physical presence. I had a similar experience attending an EST (remember that?) information (read 'recruitment') night years later.

After that experience I gave the Scientology a very wide berth.
Kind regards

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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby pink_trike » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:39 am

Ben wrote:Hi Dan

Dan74 wrote:I recall when they would approach people in Russell Street, Melbourne offering a free IQ and Happiness test. The tactic was to snare some hapless young people by telling them they are smart, talented but not quite happy and underappreciated. Some friends di this for laughs and were creeped out by just how good at manipulation these people were.


Yes, I actually did one of those tests when I was a teenager living in Sydney after being button-holed by someone on the street. At the time I had enough street smarts to give a false name and address - it was aeons before information privacy legislation came into being. I knew it was a crock the moment they brought out the emotion-reading machine which was an empty aerosol can sans the lid with a wire coming from inside it and attached to an old voltmeter. I just had to hold it while the young tester asked me questions and apparently the needle swayed this way or that. The other powerful impression I had was the abject misery of the young woman who was testing me. Her sadness was so intense it had a near physical presence. I had a similar experience attending an EST (remember that?) information (read 'recruitment') night years later.

After that experience I gave the Scientology a very wide berth.
Kind regards

Ben


I remember EST...it swept San Francisco by storm and ate up several friends. I once went with a friend to hear Werner speak at the San Francisco Symphony Hall (huge). Within 30 minutes I was ready to leave. He was using classic brainwashing techniques and media techniques to manipulate the rapt crowd. Example: he would intellectualize in the most obscure but sincere manner for a block of time and then would abruptly bark an order at the audience. Example: he barked out "STAND UP RIGHT NOW". Nearly the entire audience stood up. Then he asked those standing to look around at those few who had remained seated (myself included) and said "these are the people who need EST the most", which is a classic mob rule strategy: manipulate the mob to shame the minority. My friend and I started laughing and got up to leave. As we made our way out to the aisle (along with a few other people scattered around the auditorium) Werner was silent. I was aware that those of us who were leaving were being tracked by "ushers" from various points in the auditorium who were moving toward the exits that we were aiming at. When my friend and I exited the auditorium we were met by three "ushers" who repeatedly blocked our way as we tried to make for the exit from the building, and who grilled us on why we were leaving and making strong suggestions to return to our seats emphasizing the word "now". My friend was getting scared by them and back then intimidation inspired me to action so I told them in a voice that meant business that if they didn't step out of our way NOW we would pitch such a stink that they would wish for a long time that they had (and I was fully prepared to do just that) and that we'd make sure the police were called. They immediately stepped aside. At the door leaving the Hall we were met by two more smooth talking goons who blocked the door with big smiles and repeatedly and firmly asked us to sign the guest book. My friend was so freaked out that she signed it and when they demanded her phone number she gave it - anything to get out of the building. Starting the next day she began to receive calls up to 5 times a day from EST "representatives" who would attempt to engage her in conversation about how hard life is. She begged them to stop calling. Only when I got on the phone and firmly told them to not call again or hear from our lawyer did they finally stop.

I could tell EST stories all night long about my friend's involvement with them, particularly how they were treated and how much money they handed over to the organization. I'm glad his organization lost its strength finally. What a sleazy operator.
Last edited by pink_trike on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:03 am

EST??? whats that can you provide a link

but I done one of those tests a fe years ago, what a load of crap the test was, then the mail and e-mail started, don't get them any more :guns:
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby pink_trike » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:11 am

Manapa wrote:EST??? whats that can you provide a link

but I done one of those tests a fe years ago, what a load of crap the test was, then the mail and e-mail started, don't get them any more :guns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:39 am

Ben wrote:Hi Dan

Dan74 wrote:I recall when they would approach people in Russell Street, Melbourne offering a free IQ and Happiness test. The tactic was to snare some hapless young people by telling them they are smart, talented but not quite happy and underappreciated. Some friends di this for laughs and were creeped out by just how good at manipulation these people were.


Yes, I actually did one of those tests when I was a teenager living in Sydney after being button-holed by someone on the street. At the time I had enough street smarts to give a false name and address - it was aeons before information privacy legislation came into being. I knew it was a crock the moment they brought out the emotion-reading machine which was an empty aerosol can sans the lid with a wire coming from inside it and attached to an old voltmeter. I just had to hold it while the young tester asked me questions and apparently the needle swayed this way or that. The other powerful impression I had was the abject misery of the young woman who was testing me. Her sadness was so intense it had a near physical presence. I had a similar experience attending an EST (remember that?) information (read 'recruitment') night years later.

After that experience I gave the Scientology a very wide berth.
Kind regards

Ben


Been there, done that! :P

They used to particularly hit the Uni first years at Auckland University on the main street, just a block away from campus.

A year later, a friend / flatmate who was a psych major provided much illuminating insights into their "personality tests".
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:39 am

Hi Manapa

Werner Erhard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_H._Erhard

est: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training

Mr Pink wrote:What a sleazy operator.

Personally, and from what I witnessed, 'slick' or 'smooth' would be the descriptors I would have used. Meeting some of the very fragile people who were in the middle of their ego assassination via public humiliation was enough to make me very wary of any further contact. What you detailed confirms similar stories I've heard. A friend after attending the first weekend had a psychotic episode triggered and ended up in Rydalmere Psychiatric Hospital where I visited her.
metta

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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby catmoon » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:03 am

Ah EST. I remember it well, did the training in 1978 or so. Very early on the trainer told us flatly that we were all assholes. I was kind of amused by that, and thought well that's a very interesting hypothesis, how on earth is she going to back that one up? My ponderings were interrupted by a lot of movement behind me. If I recall, several people just got up and left at that point.

Through the people I met, I got some exposure to Zen, but didn't really grasp it. I did learn a thing or two about con games, but to this day I wonder if Mr. Erhardt started a ball rolling that hasn't stopped since. It is entirely possible that he was an early link in the chain of cause and effect that has led me to the quasi-Buddhist stance I hold today.

It's also surprising the number of phrases that started out as est jargon and are now standard english. Instead of "What I hear you saying is..." you can still hear people saying "What I'm getting here is..."
"Get off it" is still sometimes heard.
And the phrasing "What I need you to do is..." is practically everywhere.


Ah the memories. Woops, sorry, drifted away there. :)
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Annapurna » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:51 pm

Dan74 wrote:He is certainly an improvement on Senator Xenophobe (aka Pauline Hanson).

In Germany, for example, Scientology is outlawed.

_/|\_




In Deutschland wird die Scientology-Kirche seit 1997 in mehreren Bundesländern aufgrund eines Beschlusses der Innenministerkonferenz durch den Verfassungsschutz beobachtet.[2][3]

Since 1997, in some federal States of Germany the Scientology church is under observation by the Office for Protection of the Constitution.

Has overall a very bad reputation here, since some escapees from Scientology described their experience with the group on TV. They felt harrassed and only reported disguised.

As far as I know, proseliytizing from sects is illegal in Germany.

That's why Jehovas may stand on a corner and hold up a magazine, but may not speak to you.

They can ring a doorbell, and ask if they may speak with you, but if you say No, that's it.

We only have 2 major churches, Catholic, and Protestant.
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:09 pm

Thanks Annabel
It sounds like Germany has it worked out with prosetilyzing religions.

Here's more on the alleged abuse within the Church of Scientology in Australia:

Former Scientologists allege abuse, intimidation

FORMER members of the Church of Scientology have made explosive allegations about forced abortions, child abuse and financial extortion, prompting calls for a parliamentary inquiry.

Letters tabled by independent senator Nick Xenophon reveal claims of vulnerable people preyed on by a coercive and ruthless organisation that punished and shamed dissenters by physical incarceration, withholding food or intimidation.

But the Church of Scientology hit back, arguing the claims came from seven ''disgruntled former members who use hate speech and distorted accounts of their experiences''.

They were described as being about ''as reliable as former spouses are when talking about their ex-partner''.

the rest is here: http://www.theage.com.au/national/forme ... utostart=1


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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Mothra » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:20 am

Just reading about EST and Scientology makes me frightened.
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Ben » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:00 am

Mothra wrote:Just reading about EST and Scientology makes me frightened.


Don't be frightened Mothra! "Fore-warned is fore-armed"
metta

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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Annapurna » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:24 am

Hi, Ben,

We heard very similar complaints here.

Hard labour in Scientology owned facilities such as kitchen, to pay off debts which accumulated during expensive sessions, pressure to take those, isolating/ ignoring members who didn't want to further indebt themselves, no or restricted contact to relatives/friends, trying to pressure people who escaped into rejoining the community, etc, pp.

Pressure was often only stopped after Ex-members turned to media, who in turn started to put pressure on Scientology with interview requests.

In 1983, the Australian High Court ruled it was a religion.


Perhaps that was premature...
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Ben » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:16 am

Hi Anna
Thanks for your response. Before the latest allegations emerged, there was an excellent article published a couple of weeks ago that predicted that Scientology (as a religion/organisation) is in its last days. If i track it down I'll post it here.
kind regards

Ben

EDIT: I can't believe it! Usually the archives of this newspaper are pay-per-view.

Mad Scientologists caught in a web of their own making

Draw near, infidels, for these are dark days for the Knights of Hubbard. Do not despair entirely - the Church of Scientology remains rich, has excellent lawyers and, according to the International Scientology News, ''every minute of every hour, someone reaches for L. Ron Hubbard technology … simply because they know Tom Cruise is a Scientologist''.

So unless the world's supply of fools is melting away, they can hold off trying to lure disaffected Kabbalists into their cultish communion. And yet, it has not been the best of weeks for our operating thetans. In France, Scientology was found guilty of defrauding followers after a judge effectively debunked the idea of the church's trusty E-meter, a crude polygraph used to encourage Scientologists to purchase everything from books to extreme sauna courses.

the rest is here: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/societ ... -hqqu.html

Enjoy!
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:04 pm

Mothra wrote:Just reading about EST and Scientology makes me frightened.


Hi Mothra,
you faught godzilla and this pair scare you?

:tongue:
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Re: Senator attacks 'criminal' Church of Scientology

Postby Dhammabodhi » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:09 pm

Hi all,

In France a weird thing happened regarding Scientology. They were well on their way to be completely banned in France, but it appears that just before the trial began the pertinent law was "amended", apparently they changed just a few words from a lengthy article, and due to that the court was not able to ban them.

Steer clear of these people!

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