If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby imagemarie » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:27 am

Existentialism.. :cry:
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby christopher::: » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:52 am

I'd probably just stick to the other tradition i already belong to, always on the lookout for people who appreciate peace, laughter, good music and dancing....

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"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:21 pm

Interesting isnt it ? It would appear from this mini sample that a proportion of Theravadin Buddhists would not choose to practice any other form of Buddhism.That in fact the Theravada is the only tradition they would consider perhaps.
That conforms to my own observations in talking to other Theravadin practitioners over the years.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Stephen K » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:16 pm

Dhammanando wrote:Stoicism.

Wow. I took a quick look at the Wikipedia article about Stoicism and I found many similarities between it and the Dhamma.

The ancient Stoics are often misunderstood because the terms they used pertained to different concepts in the past than they do today. The word 'stoic' has come to mean 'unemotional' or indifferent to pain, because Stoic ethics taught freedom from 'passion' by following 'reason.' The Stoics did not seek to extinguish emotions, rather they sought to transform them by a resolute 'askēsis' which enables a person to develop clear judgment and inner calm.[22] Logic, reflection, and concentration were the methods of such self-discipline.
Borrowing from the Cynics, the foundation of Stoic ethics is that good lies in the state of the soul itself; in wisdom and self-control. Stoic ethics stressed the rule: "Follow where reason leads." One must therefore strive to be free of the passions, bearing in mind that the ancient meaning of 'passion' was "anguish" or "suffering",[23] that is, "passively" reacting to external events — somewhat different from the modern use of the word. A distinction was made between pathos (plural pathe) which is normally translated as "passion", propathos or instinctive reaction (e.g. turning pale and trembling when confronted by physical danger) and eupathos, which is the mark of the Stoic sage (sophos). The eupatheia are feelings resulting from correct judgment in the same way as the passions result from incorrect judgment.
The idea was to be free of suffering through apatheia (Greek: ἀπάθεια) or peace of mind (literally,'without passion'),[24] where peace of mind was understood in the ancient sense — being objective or having "clear judgment" and the maintenance of equanimity in the face of life's highs and lows.
For the Stoics, 'reason' meant not only using logic, but also understanding the processes of nature — the logos, or universal reason, inherent in all things. Living according to reason and virtue, they held, is to live in harmony with the divine order of the universe, in recognition of the common reason and essential value of all people. The four cardinal virtues of the Stoic philosophy are wisdom (Sophia), courage (Andreia), justice (Dikaiosyne), and temperance (Sophrosyne), a classification derived from the teachings of Plato.
Following Socrates, the Stoics held that unhappiness and evil are the results of human ignorance of the reason in nature. If someone is unkind, it is because they are unaware of their own universal reason which would lead to the conclusion of kindness. If they are unhappy, it is because they have forgotten how nature actually functions — unhappiness is having one's unrealistic expectations of reality go unfulfilled. The solution to evil and unhappiness then, is the practice of Stoic philosophy — to examine one's own judgments and behaviour and determine where they have diverged from the universal reason of nature.
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Moggalana » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:48 pm

Stefan wrote:Wow. I took a quick look at the Wikipedia article about Stoicism and I found many similarities between it and the Dhamma.

Yes, and also between the Dhamma and Epicureanism. Do you know this thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1411&p=17831&hilit=Epicureanism#p17831 ?
Let it come. Let it be. Let it go.
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Kare » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:13 pm

Secular Humanism.
Mettāya,
Kåre
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:41 pm

Moggalana wrote:
Stefan wrote:Wow. I took a quick look at the Wikipedia article about Stoicism and I found many similarities between it and the Dhamma.

Yes, and also between the Dhamma and Epicureanism. Do you know this thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1411&p=17831&hilit=Epicureanism#p17831 ?


I think epicureanism is actually closer to Buddhism
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Moggalana » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:19 pm

Manapa wrote:I think epicureanism is actually closer to Buddhism

That is my impression, too. But I don't know enough about Stoicism and Epicureanism to get to a final judgement ;)
If Buddhism wasn't around (i.e. non of it schools existing), I would probably also go with Secular Humanism.
Let it come. Let it be. Let it go.
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Anders » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:21 pm

well, Chan obviously (seeing as that is my practise).

Then probably Zen.

Then Tiantai.
Huayen
Mahamudra
Dzogchen
Madhyamika
Yogacara

If none of those existed....

I would probably be a free spirit seeker, taking my inspiration from stuff like Vedanta, Daoism and Kashmir Shaivism, probably dipping into Christian mystics like Meister Eckhart, St. John of the Cross and Dionysius the Areopagite on the side.
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:33 pm

So, if there was no Theravada you would do what you do anyway Mr. Honore... :smile:

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:32 pm

I'm fine with Theravada, thanks :)
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:14 pm

Dugu wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:i started in zen, and was quite happy there, i only ended up in theravada because i had a ticket to thailand and decided to use my time there visiting and living in temples... so if no theravada then it'd still be zen


How long were you in Zen? And what was it about Theravada that made you switch? :smile:


i had been with my teacher for 5 years before i went to Thailand. the main thrust of my conversion was i felt that the mahayana sutras as words of the Buddha wasnt historically reliable
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:45 am

Does no Therevada mean no sutta-pitaka?
I would probably still do the same. Meditate and reading suttas. If there were no suttas, I would read other things and would keep on trying to "solve the problem of life".
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:04 pm

how is that debatable, not shareing the same interpretation as some others, and being converts to doesnt negate their belnging
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Tex » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:15 pm

I'd be a secular humanist who meditates and has an interest in Zen.
"The serene and peaceful mind is the true epitome of human achievement."-- Ajahn Chah, Living Dhamma

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby poto » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:16 pm

Well, I usually identify myself as a Buddhist, not a Theravadin specifically. I've enjoyed studying various traditions and have had positive interactions with monastics from different traditions. So, for me if one school did not exist, I would hope it would not impact my practice much.

If no Buddhism existed at all, I would probably be an ascetic yogi, one attempting to find and follow the ancient path, traveled by the fully Awakened ones of former times.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby ckatgo » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:22 am

I tried to go practice other schools just to "stick my toes in" to see what they were like, I would have to go in the secular humanist camp as well.

I guess when one is home they are home :shrug:
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Re: If there was no Theravada, which tradition would you pick?

Postby Emi » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:27 am

Despite me agreeing with many posts already here, which flow along the lines of 'if there was no Theravada, there would be no other traditions', and about the opinion that all other schools have just drifted from Theravada, if I were forced, I think it'd be Zen - zazen intruiges me. :juggling:
"When all you've got is nothing, there's a lot to go around."
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