"bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

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"bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:11 am

:rofl:

Okay, just reading through an end of term essay from one of the students here, when I found this brilliant little number in describing the origins of a particular Chinese Bbuddhist festival, based on the story of Moggallana saving his mother:

"Moggallana needed to put the sweet and tasty food in the 'bowel' and present to the monks on the fifteen (sic) day of the month."

Think I'll be going elsewhere for pindapata today .... :P
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:14 am

That is funny. English is a very difficult, confusing language.
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Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:36 am

:rofl:
witch, which is whitch?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:50 am

tiltbillings wrote:... English is a very difficult, confusing language.

English is a very *big* language - there was a celebration recently (Oxford University Press? I can't remember) for its millionth word.
It is a very *flexible*, accommodating language, accepting words from everywhere and tolerating all sorts of strange grammar.
But yeah, those advantages come at a cost.
When you've worked out which witch is which and which is busy witching, you might like to work out why 'ghoti' should be pronounced the same as 'fish'.
:rolleye:

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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Euclid » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:25 am

Hehe, that was always a favourite of mine.

Gh, from 'cough'.

O, from 'wort'? (can't remember what this properly is)

ti, from '-tion' (petition, for example).
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Laurens » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:29 pm

read, reed, read (past tense), red

English can be confusing indeed!

Obviously having a grasp of context can help haha
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Kare » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:53 pm

Euclid wrote:Hehe, that was always a favourite of mine.

Gh, from 'cough'.

O, from 'wort'? (can't remember what this properly is)

ti, from '-tion' (petition, for example).


O from "women".
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:52 pm

Well done, folks :smile:
We now know all we need to know about fish, no?
Can anyone construct a meaningful, grammatically correct English sentence in which the word 'and' appears five times in a row, with only punctuation marks in between?
(Actually, I'm sure this one is not restricted to the English language - but it's cute anyway.)

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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby catmoon » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:19 am

Hm I don't suppose this would count....

I went to the beach with Andy, Mandy, Sandy and Randy.
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:13 am

Paññāsikhara wrote:"Moggallana needed to put the sweet and tasty food in the 'bowel' and present to the monks on the fifteen (sic) day of the month."

Think I'll be going elsewhere for pindapata today .... :P


3 fold rule.

:rules:

(must accept what is in your bowl, bhante! just kidding)
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby being5 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:29 am

Kim,
I could get to five consecutive ands by pretending a conversation between two people discussing digital signals. In digital logic there are elements called, collectively, 'gates'. Gates are named according to their functions: AND, NAND, OR, NOR, XOR, (maybe others I've missed - it's been a while....)

"What kind of gate would you use?"
"An AND"
"And?"
"AND and AND into an OR".

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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:03 am

Hi, Catmoon,
You're right:
I went to the beach with Andy, Mandy, Sandy and Randy.

does not count - the question said 'punctuation' not 'letters'. But thanks for your contribution anyway.

Beign5:
:toast:
Great solution! Original, idiomatic, and does everything I asked for.
Like to try the next level up: 'and' five times in a row, with only punctuation in between (okay, no change yet) but now all in one, grammatically correct sentence.
:smile:

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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:53 am

I'll provide the letters, somebody else can throw in the punctuation:


...andandandandandand...

hmmm, we can add " " too, right?
And it could be in new sentences, as well ...
Must be some "and", "an" or "a" (but then the next would have to start with "nd.."), and also "dan".
The first word may just end in "an" or "and", and the last word may just start with "dand" or "and" ...

...stand and a "n". dan d and andy ...

:rolleye:

For "and"s I can mange, but the fifth is tricky!

Can I use "nda" as a "near death axperience"?

There's got to be some trick here ... :P
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:57 am

Good lord! Here's a good one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_bu ... lo_buffalo

Though there is nothing like a Google to give the game away...
(Google it yourself, I'm not giving you the link!)
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:31 am

Sometimes Google and Wikipedia make things too easy, but mostly they bring great goodness to our lives.
:bow:
I knew the 'Buffalo' sentence but not the 'had' sentence, so thanks.

Back to the topic:
The *word* 'and' five times in a row, in one grammatical sentence, is perfectly possible without any tricks. If you want to use tricks like counting the last three letters of 'hand' as an 'and', the target becomes seven times in a row.
(And yes, quotation marks are useful.)
Any takers?

By the way, everyone who is enjoying this thread should also enjoy 'Free Rice' http://www.freerice.com/, which has the bonus of feeding the hungry.

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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby catmoon » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:46 pm

Wau. Anyone who reads and understands the above links must surely gain some insight into why it is so difficult to write about emptiness. I've recently been reading Shantideva on the subject. (Which subject, hmmm?) I repeatedly had this bizarre experience of reading a sentence, thinking "Well that can't be right" and then re-reading the sentence. Upon realizing what he was referring to, and who was speaking to whom, a diametrically opposite meaning would emerge that fit in logically with the passage.

Oh well, you say, then it's all good you got there in the end. No.

The next thing that occurred to me was that if there can be one sentence in the text that can have opposing meanings depending on interpretation, then it is possible that ALL sentences in the text have that property. Indeed I had already discovered several. So the possibility arises that there is a way to parse the entire text in a way that leads to any desired conclusion. This is not good. Worse still, what if the text contains typos? Missing punctuation, a letter missing or changed here and there? What if the original writer, working from oral speech, at some point made the equivalent error of writing "red" instead of "read"? Such errors are not always easily detectable, and indeed can blend in making perfect logical sense in some cases.

So there's no guarantee that the nice sensible meaning I have extracted from Shantideva was the only nice sensible meaning that can be extracted.

Finally, looking around the threads of various boards, I find evidence that whole systems of self consistent thought have, in fact, been extracted from the texts, that they differ significantly in their conclusions, and are not logically separable into categories of true and false.

Do you disagree with this post? If so, how do you know what it is you are disagreeing with? Do you really think you see the intended meaning? Are you sure it has been committed to writing without error? How do you know whether or not the whole thing was written in an ironic or satiric way?
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:00 pm

Hi, catmoon,
Perhaps this will make you happier:
Importance of Original Knowledge

A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He notices, however, that they are copying copies, and not the original books.
So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there was an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies. The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son."
So, the head monk goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original. Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying. He asks what's wrong.
"The word is 'celebrate' not 'celibate'," says the old monk with tears in his eyes.

from http://www.orcca.on.ca/~elena/site/DidacticJokes.html
:smile:
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby catmoon » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:44 am

hee hee hee


tnx. I shall continue to struggle to extract meaning from the texts. I guess it's all I know how to do.
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:32 am

When discussing logic operators:

" 'AND' and 'AND', and 'AND' and 'OR' are two combinations of logic operators that give different outputs."

Obviously the grammar is wrong but it's hard to show what I mean. That's six in a row though.

Edit: just saw this solution is basically the same as Being5's. Poo. I'll keep thinking.
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Re: "bowls" and "bowels" - what a howler!

Postby Paññāsikhara » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:35 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:Hi, catmoon,
Perhaps this will make you happier:
Importance of Original Knowledge

A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He notices, however, that they are copying copies, and not the original books.
So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there was an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies. The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son."
So, the head monk goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original. Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books crying. He asks what's wrong.
"The word is 'celebrate' not 'celibate'," says the old monk with tears in his eyes.

from http://www.orcca.on.ca/~elena/site/DidacticJokes.html
:smile:
Kim


haha! If only philology was so simple.

(eg. we don't have any "original books".)
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