Buddha and Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Element]

Dear Forum,

For us, what differences and similarities come to mind when we read & practise the Buddhadhamma & the teachings of Jiddu Krishnmurti?

When I first learned Buddhism, in the 80's, the Dhamma centres were full of books & talks by and people talking about KM.

Even Ajahn Buddhadasa chuckled away one day saying he enjoyed KM's first book.

Now things appear quiet. Is his movement still active?

With metta

Element

[Ben]

Hi Element,
Is there something specific with regards to Krishnamurti's work that you wanted to raise?
My memory is a bit rusty, I read his 'Talks to American Students' nearly twenty years ago. More recently, I read about a meeting between John Coleman with Krishnamurti while Coleman was on his spiritual quest in the 1960s. If you are a fan of Krishnamurti it is worthwhile checking out Coleman's 'The Quiet Mind' as I am sure the portrayal of Krishnamurti is one that may not be that well known to his later students.
Kind regards

Ben

[Will]

There is a website for his organization: http://www.kfa.org/

[Element]

Hi Element,
Is there something specific with regards to Krishnamurti's work that you wanted to raise?

Ben

Nothing in particular. I have read & heard his works & talks also.

Just opening up a discussion thread.

E

[Ben]

Just opening up a discussion thread.

Hi Element
Please, be my guest!
This probably goes without saying but I found K's work stemming from an altogether different headspace than Theravada teachers. I certainly don't know K well enough to speak with any authority but it seemed incredibly cerebral.
Kind regards

Ben

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I've heard it on good authority that Krishnamurti falls into the category of "new age foo foo".





Metta,
Retro.

[Will]

He taught nothing special, just standard Advaita Vedanta - without naming it as such. He was brilliant, but with a vicious temper and was a hypocrite of the first water. I heard him speak in Ojai once and juxtaposed were his precise, piercing thoughts and biting contempt for some questioners.

He pretended not to care about himself or his status as a "guru" to thousands, but kept hidden his affairs with married women; the abortions he encouraged etc. Read this critical biography by one who knew him better than most -

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... w&x=70&y=9

[Element]

I liked some of his teachings. I recall a wonderful talk called 'The need to be alone", which was about how to get through the hindrance of existential fear.

KM made the wonderful distinction between 'loneliness' & 'aloneless'. Of course, in Buddhism, 'aloneness' is a spiritual state and, on the highest level, a synonym for Nibbana, what in Pali is called 'viveka'.

I also liked his view about 'death is the ending of thought'.

KM was certainly creative and articulate.

[zavk]

The following is apparently a poem Krishnamurti wrote about the Buddha. I found it on Buddhanet at: http://www.buddhanet.net/bvk_study/bvk22a.htm

The Immortal Friend
(Poem)

I sat dreaming in a room of great silence.
The early morning was still and breathless,
The great blue mountains stood against the dark
skies, cold and clear,
Round the dark log house
The black and yellow birds were welcoming the sun.

I sat on the floor, with legs crossed, meditating,
Forgetting the sunlit mountains,
The birds,
The immense silence,
And the golden sun.

I lost the feel of my body,
My limbs were motionless,
Relaxed and at peace.
A great joy of unfathomable depth filled my heart.
Eager and keen was my mind, concentrated.
Lost to the transient world,
I was full of strength.

As the Eastern breeze
That suddenly springs into being
And calms the weary world,
There in front of me
Seated cross-legged,
As the world knows Him
In His yellow robes, simple and magnificent,
Was the Teacher of Teachers.

Looking at me,
Motionless the Mighty Being sat.
I looked and bowed my head.
My body bent forward of itself.

That one look
Showed the progress of the world,
Showed the immense distance between the world
And the greatest of its Teachers.

How little it understood,
And how much He gave.
How joyously He soared,
Escaping from birth and death,
From its tyranny and entangling wheel.

Enlightenment attained,
He gave to the world, as the flower gives
Its scent,
The Truth.

As I looked
At the sacred feet that once trod the happy
Dust of India,
My heart poured forth its devotion,
Limitless and unfathomable,
Without restraint and without effort.

-J Krishnamurti, 'The immortal friend', Ommen, Star publishing Trust 1928, Pages 8-10 also quoted in 'J Krishnamurti' as I knew him' by Susunaga Weeraperuma- Motilal Banarsidass- 1996, Pages 181-183.

I too have found some of K's writing inspiring. From what I understand he had several traumatic experiences in the first half of his life. I've also heard about those alleged misconducts you mention, Will. So, while he may be a flawed teacher (let's assume the allegations of misconduct have some truth in them), it seems to me that he did experience suffering in a very profound way and that he was sharing his views out of a deep desire to encourage others to investigate for themselves the nature of suffering. That, to me, is quite laudable, even if he did exhibit some all too human weaknesses. This is of course not to say that we should accept his ideas regardless of their validity, but that we can nevertheless appreciate his effort (assuming that they arose out of good intentions).

Best wishes,
zavk

[zamis]

The greatest influence in my turning to Buddhism a second time, was a little book he supposedly didn't write (At the Master's Feet) when he was a young boy "found" by the Theosophical Society. I must have read that book at least a hundred times over a ten year period. Finding out he didn't write it (it was attributed to Leadbeater???) was a jolt. Krishnamurti's book Freedom from the Known was also highly influential, and as with the one mentioned above, the influence was away from him.

There is not much parallel between Krishnamurti and Theravada but many times as I read his work, the Heart Sutra came to mind.

[Will]

The greatest influence in my turning to Buddhism a second time, was a little book he supposedly didn't write (At the Master's Feet) when he was a young boy "found" by the Theosophical Society. I must have read that book at least a hundred times over a ten year period. Finding out he didn't write it (it was attributed to Leadbeater???) was a jolt. Krishnamurti's book Freedom from the Known was also highly influential, and as with the one mentioned above, the influence was away from him.

There is not much parallel between Krishnamurti and Theravada but many times as I read his work, the Heart Sutra came to mind.

As is so often the case with Leadbeater, he was not original in At the Feet of the Master. The four categories of basic qualities needed were culled from the Vivekacudamani of Shankara, the non-dualistic Vedanta sage.

[zamis]

rofl. thank you Will. I should say that I read A los pies del maestro. It was the Spanish translation. The emphasis was on "el sendero," the path. So when I encountered the Noble Eightfold Path, there was an instantaneous connection - a "seeing". I wonder if Leadbetter stream reaps merit from such an ocurrence?