Pain in the patookus

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tiltbillings
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Pain in the patookus

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:24 am

Here is a little something from a e-list I am on:

A fascinating tale of how a ex-Theravadan novice accepted Jesus Christ as
savior because of his hemorrhoid issue¡­ It is unfortunate¡­ because if he
had ordained as a Chinese novice, he would surely know of the Sutra on the
Healing of Hemorrhoids (I kid you not [google translation:] scripture Taisho Tripitaka 21st newly volumes No. 1325 "Buddha said that after treatment hemorrhoids" http://w3.cbeta.org/result/normal/T21/1325_001.htm ) then he would not have been a Christian. Oh well, his karma:





This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Guy
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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Guy » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:44 am

I used to blast Christians for their beliefs, so maybe it's just because of my karma that I keep running into this kind of stuff.
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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Ben
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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Ben » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:37 am

Simplisic and erroneous drivel.
It epitomises the moral and spiritual vaccuum at the heart of their chosen path.
Fortunately, not all christians are so ignorant.
Thanks for sharing Tilt.
metta

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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zavk
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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby zavk » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:12 am

Hahaha....

This guy is from one of those 'mega-churches' in Singapore.

It is possible that the only kind of Buddhism he knows of is the unthinking, ignorant good-luck-amulet-praying-for-good-fortune type which, according to Ven. Dhammika whom I spoke to when I visited Singapore last year, is still very prevalent there. This was the kind of Buddhism I encountered too when I was growing up there. But there are obviously more informed kinds of Buddhism now.

Nevertheless, in making this sort of argument he is creating an alter-ego of what he criticises--an unthinking, ignorant Christianity.

Ah the irony....
With metta,
zavk

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:34 am

zavk wrote:Nevertheless, in making this sort of argument he is creating an alter-ego of what he criticises--an unthinking, ignorant Christianity.

Ah the irony....
Alas. Irony is lost on people such as that.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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salmon
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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby salmon » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:53 am

Pity those who have to condemn other religions to feel confident of their own. Those who have confidence in their own faith will just laugh this off.
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Monkey Mind » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:05 am

Are these videos backwards? Seems like the first should be second... I chuckled when told that women are equal in Christianity. I have a few friends who would debate that.

I think the real miracle on that stage is the podium. Sleek and unintrusive design.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Annapurna » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:22 am

Guy wrote:I used to blast Christians for their beliefs, so maybe it's just because of my karma that I keep running into this kind of stuff.


Makes sense... :thumbsup:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Euclid » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:03 pm

I always find keeping Dhp. verse 50 in mind helpful when confronted with this kind of stuff.

Not the faults of others, nor what others have done or left undone, but one’s own deeds, done and left undone, should one consider.


It goes both ways.

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby salmon » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:26 am

It seems the pastor's kamma has caught up with him and he is in trouble with the law for those statements.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 11/1/.html


Pastor's comments on Buddhism/Taoism "inappropriate & unacceptable": MHA
Posted: 08 February 2010 2345 hrs

SINGAPORE: The Internal Security Department (ISD) has called up Pastor Rony Tan of Lighthouse Evangelism in connection with his comments and insinuations about Buddhism and Taoism at his church sessions.

These sessions were video-recorded and made available on Lighthouse Evangelism's website. Video clips of these sessions subsequently became available on YouTube and other websites.

The Ministry of Home Affairs said Pastor Tan's comments were highly inappropriate and unacceptable as they trivialised and insulted the beliefs of Buddhists and Taoists.

They can also give rise to tension and conflict between the Buddhist/Taoist and Christian communities.

ISD told Pastor Tan that in preaching or proselytising his faith, he must not run down other religions, and must be mindful of the sensitivities of other religions.

Pastor Tan has expressed his deepest apologies and remorse. He deeply regrets that he has been insensitive and offensive towards the Buddhist and Taoist faiths, and that his comments have saddened and hurt their followers.

He has promised that it will never happen again and has also affirmed that he will tell his members to respect other beliefs and build a harmonious Singapore.

- CNA/ir
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:48 am

Correct...
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:02 am

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby zavk » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:29 am

tiltbillings wrote:



Indeed! :)

Singapore, as some of might know, has a bit of a reputation for being a 'nanny state'. The very same Internal Security Act which empowers the ISD has, in the past, been used to legitimize the detention without trial of opposition politicians, or generally anyone regarded as a 'dissident'. It has also been used to legitimize the shutting down of independent news media, usually on the grounds that unregulated media might incite 'civil unrest'. Whether these punitive measures are justified or not is arguable.

Anyway, I am glad that he is getting his just desserts. But the law that curtails this sort of activity is a bit of a double edged sword.
With metta,
zavk

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Dan74 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:57 am

tiltbillings wrote:Here is a little something from a e-list I am on:

A fascinating tale of how a ex-Theravadan novice accepted Jesus Christ as
savior because of his hemorrhoid issue¡­ It is unfortunate¡­ because if he
had ordained as a Chinese novice, he would surely know of the Sutra on the
Healing of Hemorrhoids (I kid you not [google translation:] scripture Taisho Tripitaka 21st newly volumes No. 1325 "Buddha said that after treatment hemorrhoids" http://w3.cbeta.org/result/normal/T21/1325_001.htm ) then he would not have been a Christian. Oh well, his karma:


Well, you should know that those who denigrate The Hemorrhoid Sutra :bow: :bow: :bow: are destined to be reborn as a woman in the lower Realm of Constipated Catholic Octomums. :twisted:

_/|\_
_/|\_

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby Dhammabodhi » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:02 am

Much metta to both of them, as well as the people laughing in the background. :hug:
-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby salmon » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:44 am

zavk wrote:
Singapore, as some of might know, has a bit of a reputation for being a 'nanny state'. The very same Internal Security Act which empowers the ISD has, in the past, been used to legitimize the detention without trial of opposition politicians, or generally anyone regarded as a 'dissident'. It has also been used to legitimize the shutting down of independent news media, usually on the grounds that unregulated media might incite 'civil unrest'. Whether these punitive measures are justified or not is arguable.

Anyway, I am glad that he is getting his just desserts. But the law that curtails this sort of activity is a bit of a double edged sword.


In a country where there is probably more religions mish-mashed together than anywhere else on earth, you can't blame ISD for acting so quickly. Racial harmony is one of the most difficult things to maintain!!

In any case, the pastor has been made to make a public apology and had tea with the offended religious heads.

Pastor apologises personally to Buddhist & Taoist federations
By Hoe Yeen Nie, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 09 February 2010 2332 hrs

SINGAPORE: The pastor who was called up by the Internal Security Department (ISD) for making insensitive remarks against the Buddhist and Taoist faiths has apologised personally to the leaders of the two religions.

The leaders of the two faiths accepted Pastor Rony Tan's apology, and wish to let the matter rest.

Pastor Tan of Lighthouse Evangelism made the comments at his church sessions. These sessions were video-recorded and made available on Lighthouse Evangelism's website.

Video clips of these sessions subsequently became available on YouTube and other websites. The clips showed Pastor Tan interviewing a former monk and a former nun.

Some who viewed the videos felt the pastor had insulted the Buddhist and Taoist faiths.

On Monday, the pastor was called up by the ISD. That same night Pastor Tan issued a public apology on his church's website.

On Tuesday, he met the leaders of both faiths at the monastery at Bright Hill for about an hour and apologised in person.

Venerable Kwang Sheng, president of Singapore Buddhist Federation, described the meeting as amiable. "When he first came in, he said he wished to apologise to us, saying that things on the video clip seemed to be very uncalled for.

"He realised that it was a mistake and the magnitude of the response was quite large. So he realised it was a serious issue, and he wishes to apologise to the Buddhists and Taoists for his wrongdoing.

"And (he) said that he will not repeat his mistake again. We accepted his apology."

When asked if he was satisfied with what Pastor Tan said, Venerable Kwang Sheng told MediaCorp: "Yes, because what else can we demand if someone else has already apologised? He said he was quite ignorant of other religions, he doesn't know the practice of Buddhism."

Venerable Kwang Sheng added that there will be room for better communication in future. "We exchanged name cards, and perhaps in future we may be able to meet and talk about our religion and his religion and if there are any misunderstandings in future, we can communicate."

In response to MediaCorp's query, the Singapore Bible College said it trains would-be pastors to be mindful of what they say, especially in a multi-religious society.

Dr Albert Ting, principal of Singapore Bible College, said: "You can talk about your uniqueness, you can talk about your values, you can talk about your doctrines, you can talk about what constitutes the basis of your faith.

"That is all within the allowable discussion. That is your faith, you can't change it. But whenever you're engaged with others, then you want to show your respect."

In a statement, the National Council of Churches said an advisory was issued to Christians in 2008 "not to denounce other religions" even as they evangelise.

But in the heat of the moment, a preacher can cross the line. And here is where the popularity of new media has made the situation more complex, because once these speeches are uploaded on the Internet, they can be easily forwarded to other people and posted on other websites.

Alvin Yeo, chairman of the Government Parliamentary Committee for Home Affairs and Law, said: "There becomes a greater onus on whoever is making the video or being in the video, to take responsibility for their actions."

"The new phenomenon of the Internet and, you know, where everyone's mobile phone has a video facility, means that whatever you say and do, even in more limited confines, can well be spread to thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or potentially millions others," he added.

He also said the answer is not greater regulation but personal responsibility, adding that "depending on whether the message is incendiary (or not), I think authorities will move fast to take action, particularly if the outreach is that much greater."

The Islamic Council of Singapore said comments that "denigrate and trivialise" other faiths are unacceptable in Islam, while the Inter-Religious Organisation said it is "comforting" to see that many of the public comments speak for the need for religious harmony in Singapore.

- CNA/ir
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

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zavk
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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby zavk » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:12 am

Hi salmon,

Drawing attention to and raising questions about the wider implications of a particular set of legislation is not the same as 'blaming' the authorities for taking action against any potential threats to the wellbeing of society. Nor is it to condone divisive or anti-social behaviour.

To give an analogy: When George W. Bush passed the Patriot Act shortly after 9/11, it generated a lot of controversy. The Patriot Act was passed in the interest of national security, but it also had wider implications which many Americans felt were questionable. In questioning those possible implications, they weren't exactly 'blaming' the Bush administration for taking action to guard against further threats to national security, nor were they condoning acts of aggression against their country.

A course of action--even if taken in reaction to an urgent crisis (and crises usually require swift authoritative action)--does not make ethical reflection about the implications of authority superfluous or redundant.

But yes, it was pretty obvious from the start that he wouldn't get away with what he did.

It's all good now.
With metta,
zavk

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby salmon » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:33 am

zavk wrote:Hi salmon,

Drawing attention to and raising questions about the wider implications of a particular set of legislation is not the same as 'blaming' the authorities for taking action against any potential threats to the wellbeing of society. Nor is it to condone divisive or anti-social behaviour.


Hi zavk,

my apologies for I had used the word "blame" casually/colloquially in this context & quoted your post for convenience. Sorry for the miscommunication. No offense intended.


It's all good now.


It is indeed.
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

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Re: Pain in the patookus

Postby zavk » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:06 am

Hey salmon,

Not a problem. No offense taken. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't condoning these sorts of behaviour, even as I question the background of the law that is clamming down on him.

:anjali:
With metta,
zavk


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