Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

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Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Wind » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:06 am

To those who decided not to have kids. What are your reasons? For me, I have decided not to have kids because I do not see this world as a fitting place to raise them. It's not a Buddhist reason I know. But it is my personal reasons and I already have plenty of nieces to love as my own.

Of course, many of the older generation think it's weird or stupid that I chose not to want a family. I know deep down my parents worried that I won't get marry either. But ultimately it's my decision and that's what I have chosen for myself.
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Mukunda » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:34 am

How come no one asks "Why DO you want to have kids?" :thinking:
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Guy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:37 am

Hi Wind,

A few things come to mind: sleepless nights, nappies, constantly worrying about sharp/heavy/electric/etc objects, having to go to wiggles concerts...and then they grow up which is when the problems really start...

If people want to have children for the right reasons and are prepared to do what it takes then I admire their selflessness and compassion. I just don't see myself going down that road in this lifetime, thank you very much.

Another reason: If you stay in the household life for too long there is a high probability of being reborn and having to be the one in the nappies yourself.

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby christopher::: » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:51 am

Wind wrote:I know deep down my parents worried that I won't get marry either. But ultimately it's my decision and that's what I have chosen for myself.


Just curious, who is this "I" that chooses for "myself"?

Guy wrote:
If people want to have children for the right reasons and are prepared to do what it takes then I admire their selflessness and compassion. I just don't see myself going down that road in this lifetime, thank you very much.

Another reason: If you stay in the household life for too long there is a high probability of being reborn and having to be the one in the nappies yourself.



Do you believe that not having children somehow decreases that probability? I would think that if we have children for the right reasons (as you describe) it can actually be more of an intensified and effective dhamma path then not having children due to selfishness.

(See Ben's quote below)

:smile:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby bodom » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:59 am

To support mother and father, to cherish wife and children, and to be engaged in peaceful occupation — this is the greatest blessing. - Snp 2.4

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Guy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:20 am

Hi Christopher,

christopher::: wrote:Do you believe that not having children somehow decreases that probability?


No I don't believe there is a direct correlation between not having children and the probability of not being reborn (even the Buddha had a son). However, if someone is deciding whether or not to invest, say, 18 years at home raising kids or going forth I would think that going forth immediately is going to be more conducive to Awakening (assuming that they have Right Intention established).

christopher::: wrote:I would think that if we have children for the right reasons (as you describe) it can actually be more of an intensified and effective dhamma path then not having children due to selfishness.

(See Ben's quote below)


Cultivating the Four Brahmaviharas is great whether you are a householder or a monastic, no question about it. I would say that the monastic lifestyle is more supportive for developing the Right Intention of renunciation though. This, in my opinion, is anything but selfish. So, essentially I agree with you that practicing the Four Brahmaviharas (whether or not one has children) is beneficial and "not having children due to selfishness" is unbeneficial. It wouldn't be right to say that all people who don't want to have children are selfish. It seems to me that the intention behind going forth or having children (or anything for that matter) is far more important than what the action actually is. If we practice Right Intention it naturally follows that we will practice Right Action.

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby christopher::: » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:27 am

Hi Guy

Guy wrote:
christopher::: wrote:Do you believe that not having children somehow decreases that probability?


No I don't believe there is a direct correlation between not having children and the probability of not being reborn (even the Buddha had a son). However, if someone is deciding whether or not to invest, say, 18 years at home raising kids or going forth I would think that going forth immediately is going to be more conducive to Awakening (assuming that they have Right Intention established).


Perhaps. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other though, does it? If i could do things over again i'd definitely practice and study more intensively, with a teacher and/or by going on extended retreats, in the years prior to having children. So in that sense, yes, going forth immediately is an excellent idea. One never knows though how the future will unfold.

Cultivating the Four Brahmaviharas is great whether you are a householder or a monastic, no question about it. I would say that the monastic lifestyle is more supportive for developing the Right Intention of renunciation though. This, in my opinion, is anything but selfish. So, essentially I agree with you that practicing the Four Brahmaviharas (whether or not one has children) is beneficial and "not having children due to selfishness" is unbeneficial. It wouldn't be right to say that all people who don't want to have children are selfish. It seems to me that the intention behind going forth or having children (or anything for that matter) is far more important than what the action actually is. If we practice Right Intention it naturally follows that we will practice Right Action.


Yes, definitely.

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:12 am

Mukunda wrote:How come no one asks "Why DO you want to have kids?" :thinking:
I think we should have as many as possible to raise little warriors for the Buddha's cause. It is war out there.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby christopher::: » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:23 am

tiltbillings wrote:I think we should have as many as possible to raise little warriors for the Buddha's cause. It is war out there.


Image

:buddha1: :jedi: :buddha1: :jedi: :buddha1: :jedi: :buddha1: :jedi:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:37 am

christopher::: wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I think we should have as many as possible to raise little warriors for the Buddha's cause. It is war out there.


Don't laugh. There are those Christiam who are doing just that. Each little sentient being they pop out is an arrow in quiver for the battle against the unChristianness of the world. it IS war out there according to them.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/189763

Arrows (weapons) in the name of their god:
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This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby christopher::: » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:01 am

tiltbillings wrote:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/189763

Often, children of the movement are also called "arrows." Quiverfull takes its name from Psalm 127: "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate." A wealth of military metaphors follows from this namesake, as Pride and her fellow advocates urge women toward militant fecundity in the service of religious rebirth: creating what they bluntly refer to as an army of devout children to wage spiritual battle against God's enemies. As Quiverfull author Rachel Scott writes in her 2004 movement book, "Birthing God's Mighty Warriors," "Children are our ammunition in the spiritual realm to whip the enemy! These special arrows were handcrafted by the warrior himself and were carefully fashioned to achieve the purpose of annihilating the enemy."





Yikes.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Kenshou » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:10 am

That stuff gives me the heeby-jeebies like nothing else. Ugh. Poor kids, poor all of us.
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby cooran » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:00 am

Gasp! You mean.... you mean - in Buddhism - Every Sperm is NOT Sacred? Double Gasp!

http://noolmusic.com/youtube_live/monty ... sacred.php
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:18 am

do you really need a reason why?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:51 am

Aside from all the scary Xtians, to answer the OP seriously, reasons for not having kids are often complex and even unrecognized, but bringing a child into this world which is increasing becoming over-populated, increasing dangerous in view of pollution and warring notions of how hings should be, bringing a child into this world should not be something taken lightly, despite the intense biological urge to pop one or two or more out.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:19 am

(On a conventional level)
I think it's always the parents desire to have kids. In my eyes a very selfish wish. Ask yourself, do YOU want to have kids because of YOUR desire to have kids or do the KIDS want to be born and you just play an inferior role?
People are often talking about the gift of birth... I would like to know whether the ones who have kids thought about the fact that they also make the gift of death to their children?! All the suffering starts with birth and in my eyes the parents are at least partially responsible. If I would have had the chance to decide whether I will be born or not, I wouldn't have chosen to be born.
Okay I'm drifting into speculations therefore I stop here. I hope you get the point.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby christopher::: » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:46 am

We live in a galaxy with almost a hundred billion stars, many capable of supporting life, just like our sun. Beyond that there are over a billion other galaxies. If a sentient being seeks to be born in this universe there are probably millions of planets to choose from, at the very least a few thousand...

The desire to be born as well as the desire not to be born are both desires. So, here we are. I'm just glad to be born on a world where the dhamma is so accessable and available. There have been times in the past and will be times in the future where it will be very difficult to find circumstances as fortunate as those most of us here have been blessed with.

If i'm able to teach my sons the dhamma, or at least make them aware of why suffering happens and how to reduce it, then hopefully our time here together, as a family, will be well spent.

:group:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Wind » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:49 am

christopher::: wrote:
If i'm able to teach my sons the dhamma, or at least make them aware of why suffering happens and how to reduce it, then hopefully our time here together, as a family, will be well spent.

:group:


Who's this "I" and "MY" you referring to? :tongue:

acinteyyo wrote:(On a conventional level)
I think it's always the parents desire to have kids. In my eyes a very selfish wish. Ask yourself, do YOU want to have kids because of YOUR desire to have kids or do the KIDS want to be born and you just play an inferior role?
People are often talking about the gift of birth... I would like to know whether the ones who have kids thought about the fact that they also make the gift of death to their children?! All the suffering starts with birth and in my eyes the parents are at least partially responsible. If I would have had the chance to decide whether I will be born or not, I wouldn't have chosen to be born.
Okay I'm drifting into speculations therefore I stop here. I hope you get the point.

best wishes, acinteyyo


Good post. I have the same thoughts as well. I would have not chosen to be born as well. Afterall, this is one of the reason why I am a Buddhist, to end the cycle of rebirths and deaths.
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby Clueless Git » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:52 pm

Wind wrote:To those who decided not to have kids. What are your reasons?

'Lo Wind :)

The implications of everyone making that decision would be pretty obvious?

'Less one believes there to be a benefit to ending the human race at the current generation ... Then the decision not to have kids is a luxury afforded soley by the sure and certain knowledge that other people will.
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Re: Reasons why you do not want to have kids?

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:07 pm

christopher::: wrote:We live in a galaxy with almost a hundred billion stars, many capable of supporting life, just like our sun. Beyond that there are over a billion other galaxies. If a sentient being seeks to be born in this universe there are probably millions of planets to choose from, at the very least a few thousand...
The desire to be born as well as the desire not to be born are both desires. So, here we are. I'm just glad to be born on a world where the dhamma is so accessable and available. There have been times in the past and will be times in the future where it will be very difficult to find circumstances as fortunate as those most of us here have been blessed with.

It doesn't matter whether a being desires to be born or not. That is not your business.
What I tried to point out is, that when somebody decides to have kids he or she will be a supporter of suffering.
It is not only the desire of a being to be born so that there will be another birth, it is also the essential act of the parents.
So the parents are also in charge not only the "new" being which then will be born.
It's like one who's robbing a bank and you are the one driving the getaway car. You're not actually robbing the bank but you're in charge, too! (It's not a very good simile but it's good enough)
christopher::: wrote:If i'm able to teach my sons the dhamma, or at least make them aware of why suffering happens and how to reduce it, then hopefully our time here together, as a family, will be well spent.

That's the least you can do after the horse has bolted.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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