Are you wearing skins?...

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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appicchato
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Are you wearing skins?...

Postby appicchato » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:38 pm


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acinteyyo
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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:03 pm

I cannot imagine anything more brutal than human kind.
:weep:
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

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Sönam
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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Sönam » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:05 pm

acinteyyo wrote:I cannot imagine anything more brutal than human kind.
:weep:


it's brutal for "all" sentient beings ... with no distinction !

Sönam
no hope ... no fear

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:15 am

I couldn't whatch the whole video...
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Mukunda » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:28 am

Horrible. But no different than what happens to the animals that wind up on dinner plates.

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Dudenextdoor » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:47 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:I couldn't whatch the whole video...

I'm with you there. Actually didn't make it very far in.

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby appicchato » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:54 am

Mukunda wrote:Horrible. But no different than what happens to the animals that wind up on dinner plates.


None at all...millions (billions?) of times every day...in Thailand more than sixty million chickens (just chickens) every...single...day...then you've got your pigs, ducks, buffalo, basically anything that lives and breathes...on and on...

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby cooran » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:03 am

And given the utter utter rarity of Human rebirth .... more incentive to get on with the Practice.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:47 am

appicchato wrote:
Mukunda wrote:Horrible. But no different than what happens to the animals that wind up on dinner plates.


None at all...millions (billions?) of times every day...in Thailand more than sixty million chickens (just chickens) every...single...day...then you've got your pigs, ducks, buffalo, basically anything that lives and breathes...on and on...

On the other hand, what to wear? The production of cotton requires vast amounts of herbicides and insecticides. While these may not have the wholesale slaughter of of highr life forms as is bound up in the use of animals for food and clothing, the destruction of life directly and indirectly and the degradation of the environment is significant and extremely long lasting, and this is no less so for food crops. Life is predicated upon death.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Mukunda » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:10 am

tiltbillings wrote:On the other hand, what to wear? The production of cotton requires vast amounts of herbicides and insecticides.

WRONG! Cotton can most definitely be grown organically, as can hemp. Production of hemp not only produces textiles, but food stuffs as well. For those of us in the developed world, the use of any kind of animal product IS NOT necessary for our survival and is based solely in self centered desire. I appreciate that in some areas of the world use of animals for survival may be necessary, but if you are typing on computer, hooked into the power grid, you probably do not live in one of those areas.

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:16 am

Mukunda wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:On the other hand, what to wear? The production of cotton requires vast amounts of herbicides and insecticides.

WRONG! Cotton can most definitely be grown organically, as can hemp.
Can be, but mostly cotton is not.
Production of hemp not only produces textiles, but food stuffs as well. For those of us in the developed world, the use of any kind of animal product IS NOT necessary for our survival and is based solely in self centered desire. I appreciate that in some areas of the world use of animals for survival may be necessary, but if you are typing on computer, hooked into the power grid, you probably do not live in one of those areas.

A major problem is the grossly over-populated world we live in and very few people see things in terms of long range survival. Life is predicated upon death.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Ben » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:30 am

I watched a few minutes of the video Bhante posted but couldn't go on.
The effect it had on me was to be more vigilant with regards to keeping and refining my precepts.
Not just because of the obvious benefits to me, but also for the impacts on other beings as a result of my actions.
metta

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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Kim OHara
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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:28 am

Tread lightly upon the earth.
Reduce, re-use, recycle.

All of our consumption is, ultimately, at the expense of other life. I'm not going to suggest we should all abstain from eating :tongue: but we can and should be mindful of what we eat and drink, what we wear, etc, and (at least) avoid over-consumption and waste.
:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Clueless Git » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:29 am

appicchato wrote:
Mukunda wrote:Horrible. But no different than what happens to the animals that wind up on dinner plates.


None at all...millions (billions?) of times every day...in Thailand more than sixty million chickens (just chickens) every...single...day...then you've got your pigs, ducks, buffalo, basically anything that lives and breathes...on and on...

You can add me to those who see no difference.

In fact I'll put my name down as saying that compared to the suffering caused by the meat industry that owt caused by the fur and skin industries is nowt but a drop of pee in the sea.

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Clueless Git » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:54 am

Mukunda wrote: For those of us in the developed world, the use of any kind of animal product IS NOT necessary for our survival and is based solely in self centered desire. I appreciate that in some areas of the world use of animals for survival may be necessary, but if you are typing on computer, hooked into the power grid, you probably do not live in one of those areas.

May I add to that ?

People only need to live in areas where the use of animals is necessary for survival because so much of the land that could grow food for people is ring fenced off for the sole purpose of growing food to fatten the developed worlds vast unnatural flocks and herds.

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:04 pm

Let's face it; this world is filled with horror stories. Beneath the placid surface of a lake everything is busy eating everything else; in the quiet grasses and bushes insects prey on each other: the fly in the spider's web, the praying mantis eats her mate. Birds pull worms from the ground silently screaming. Animals stalk and devour one another. There's a species of small catfish in the amazon that travels in large swarms, tunnels insides its living prey, and eats it alive from the inside, leaving a hollow shell. Human beings have been found, hollowed out by these fish, riddled by bullet-sized holes. Even we're not exempt, lots of things will gladly eat us if we fall within their territory. Under certain circumstances, we've been known to eat each other.

This is Nature. It's utterly horrid.

Unlike other animals, humans have the ability to choose. We can decide, "Today, I won't eat my fellow animals." Or as Venerable points out, not wear its skin.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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appicchato
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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby appicchato » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:23 pm

Bubbabuddhist wrote:...humans have the ability to choose. We can decide...


This is the bottom line...

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:07 pm

Yes sir. Kamma, eh Bhante? :anjali:

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby PeterB » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:33 pm

And in the end, having kept the precepts to the best of our ability, and having lived a life characterised by what the Hindus call "ahimsa" , as we should strive to, having avoided the most gross infliction of cruelty on our fellow sentient beings..after all that..life is still predicated on death. Just as Tilt says.

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Re: Are you wearing skins?...

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:54 pm

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Let's face it; this world is filled with horror stories. Beneath the placid surface of a lake everything is busy eating everything else; in the quiet grasses and bushes insects prey on each other: the fly in the spider's web, ...
This is Nature. It's utterly horrid.

This is, indeed, nature. But, "It's utterly horrid," is your response to it, not part of nature. Is it useful? Skillful?
Aversion to it seems to lead nowhere good.
:meditate:
Kim


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