Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Atheism is...

Atheism offers nothing to me.
It never has and it never will.
It doesn't make me feel good or comfort me.
It's not there for me when I'm sick or ill.
It can't intervene in my times of need.
It won't protect me from hate and lies.
It doesn't care if I fail or succeed.
It won't wipe the tears from my eyes.

It does nothing when I've got nowhere to run.
It won't give me wise words or advice.
It has no teachings for me to learn.
It can't show me what's bad or nice.
It's never inspired or excited anyone.
It won't help me fulfill all my goals.
It won't tell me to stop when I'm having fun.
It's never saved one single soul.

It doesn't take credit for everything I achieve.
It won't make me go down on bended knee.
It doesn't demand that I have to believe.
It won't torture me for eternity.
It won't teach me to hate or despise others.
It can't tell me what's right or wrong.
It won't tell anybody that they can't be lovers.
It's told nobody that they don't belong.

It won't make you think that life is worth living.
It has nothng to offer me, that's true.
But the reason Atheism offers me nothing,
is because I've never asked it to.

Atheism offers nothing,
because it doesn't need to.
Religious promises everything,
Because you want it to.

You don't need a religion or to have faith;
you just want it because you need to feel safe.
I want to feel reality.
and nothing more!

So, atheism offers me everything,
that religion has stolen before.

Manapa wrote:how about each to their own, religion or more specific religions have done some bad things, but that is not all religions, many people forget that it isn't what ever god that done these things but the people who believe in these certain things. Gods if they exist or not is not important and blamimg such beings is not an answer, nor is saying or believing such beings do or do not exist an answer, an answer is understanding, standing up when the mass is ready to fight and pointing out that hate never conquered hate it only ever bread more hate, and finding a way to make a division is the breeder of hate.
A point missed with the use of the quote attributed to the Buddha, which does sound familiar to two different places in the Suttas (Kalama, and Dhammapada) so it is probably the translation this person used, and if it holds true to the Meaning what is the problem if it isn't how you think it should be?

Individual wrote:Atheism offers nothing to me.
It won't protect me from hate and lies.

Individual wrote:It doesn't hold true to the meaning because "common sense" would fall under one of the things mentioned by the Buddha to be weary of.

Manapa wrote:A point missed with the use of the quote attributed to the Buddha, which does sound familiar to two different places in the Suttas (Kalama, and Dhammapada) so it is probably the translation this person used, and if it holds true to the Meaning what is the problem if it isn't how you think it should be?

AN 3.65 wrote:"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.

Rui Sousa wrote:

Manapa wrote:A point missed with the use of the quote attributed to the Buddha, which does sound familiar to two different places in the Suttas (Kalama, and Dhammapada) so it is probably the translation this person used, and if it holds true to the Meaning what is the problem if it isn't how you think it should be?

I think that quote, that shows on the video, misses the meaning I give to the Kalama Sutta.

I believe the Buddha was exhorting the Kalamas to develop insight through mindfulness, while checking their findings with those wiser than them, and that he was not exhorting the Kalamas to go only by their reason and common sense:

Manapa wrote:

Individual wrote:It doesn't hold true to the meaning because "common sense" would fall under one of the things mentioned by the Buddha to be weary of.

where does it say that?

It should be stressed that the Kalama Sutta does not mean that Buddhists dispense with faith: instead it is telling us that faith must be questioned constantly, even the teachings of the Buddha must be questioned. It is a faith which rejects dogma.

It is a faith in constantly being watchful for those who would say the Buddha's teachings are unquestionable and then twist the writings together to mean anything they please. Basically, buddhist faith should be a struggle to constantly test our understanding of the world.

Individual wrote:The Kalama Sutta refutes pretty much every source of knowledge other than mindfulness (sati) and intuitive wisdom (panna).

Individual wrote:

Manapa wrote:

Individual wrote:It doesn't hold true to the meaning because "common sense" would fall under one of the things mentioned by the Buddha to be weary of.

where does it say that?

Common sense would fall under "repeatedly heard" (reports), or logical conjecture, inference, and analogies. People who narrowmindedly try to shrink the list, in one way or another, to exclude "rational investigation" (modern westerners) or "Buddhist scripture," or "Buddhist teachers" (traditionalists) seem to be missing the point of the sutta. The Kalama Sutta refutes pretty much every source of knowledge other than mindfulness (sati) and intuitive wisdom (panna). Neither is "common sense" (not so common). University professors and scientists can tell you that common sense is often demonstratably wrong. In psychology, in economics, and in physics, I could name specific examples.

Bhikkhus Thanisarro and Bodhi are both probably right in their interpretations. But I think that Gil Fronsdal (dharma talks here) is more eloquent in his discussions of investigation and "the value of questioning"... And Wikipedia has a nice description too:

It should be stressed that the Kalama Sutta does not mean that Buddhists dispense with faith: instead it is telling us that faith must be questioned constantly, even the teachings of the Buddha must be questioned. It is a faith which rejects dogma.

It is a faith in constantly being watchful for those who would say the Buddha's teachings are unquestionable and then twist the writings together to mean anything they please. Basically, buddhist faith should be a struggle to constantly test our understanding of the world.

With metta ,
Individual

appicchato wrote:Weary: To grow tired; to become exhausted or impatient; as, to weary of....

Wary: Cautious of danger; carefully watching and guarding against deception, artifices, and dangers; timorously or suspiciously prudent; circumspect; scrupulous; careful...