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Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:54 pm
by jcsuperstar
retrofuturist wrote:
Please don't let unwholesome thoughts about E-Sangha consume your mind and lead you to unhappy destinations.
man that would be the worst wouldnt it? to die mad at esangha and have that determine your rebirth... doomed to wander the burning hells of internet trolldom...
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:57 pm
by Ceisiwr
One thing that seems to come accross on reading some posts on here and also on e-sangha itself is that people appear to be getting to involved in the site itself forgetting that it is just a friendly discussion about dhamma.
I dont think anyone on e-sangha has set out to intentionaly offend people/groups although it does on some occasions come accross as such.
Any website, organisation etc that offers a platform to discuss and spread dhamma in a peaceful and friendly way is doing a great service. I think troubles occur when, as stated above, people become to attached.
Thats just my take on things anyway
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:06 pm
by Placid-pool
I'm sure that ESangha provides a useful and necessary forum for discussion ... well, before this one was created - I just got utterly and totally fed up with the pervs that joined purely to air their obssessions and then tried to argue from a Dhamma point of view when someone asked them politely to stow it.
I know that all fora attract their fair share of nits but that one seemed to get more than theirs of people who needed serious psychiatric help.
And I agree - the best solution, if one is unhappy is to walk. Walk away and don't discuss it any more. The people who are left are happy there, the people who leave are happier - end of problem.
A similar situation happened on one of the bigger Pagan fora - many of us upped and offed. But there are still people around, four years down the line bad-mouthing everyone who has anything to do with it on any forum they can find ....... unhealthy and unhelpful.
Now let's all have a nice cup of tea and wish them well - they're welcome to a bit of cake any time too. I am totally non-sectarian in my cake-sharing
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:11 pm
by jcsuperstar
i think its just a matter of mixing traditions and thinking theres not going to be problems, as if all buddhist traditions have gotten along just fine up until the internet.
dhammawheel is a bit different from esangha as it has a focus of sorts that while open to all traditions theres an expectation that theravada isnt going to be subjected to being "real buddhisms" kid brother. we dont have to deal with hinayana this or provisional buddhism that.
there was once a question posed by a member over there as to why other sects where dismissive of their sect, and i replied that all the members of their sect i had ever met never knew any teachings of buddhism outside of that sect. and i got back basicly that there was no need to learn "provisional buddhism" i didnt go back to respond, but i was left thinking, there's the answer to your question as to why other buddhist dont think to highly of your sect...
and this atitude is found pretty much in all sects,
theres seems to be this attitude that theravada is the basics or foundation of mahayana, but doesnt that imply that it's what you learn first? so all those on the mahayana path should be not only well aquainted with the doctrines of theravada but at least to the level of stream enterer, as that would at least meant that they had the "basics" down before moving on right?
i dont know.. people like to have the last word, and people like to be right, and sometimes its just too much to just leave things be. and the internet lets people say things to other people they may never say in real life. which is a double edged sword
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:13 pm
by hrtbeat7
retrofuturist wrote: E-Sangha offers a valuable service, particularly I think to absolute beginners who can adjust quickly to the laws of the land.
Great post, Thanks!
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:26 pm
by davcuts
I hope I didn't come across as badmouthing e-Sangha. I have no desire to leave. It just feels different. I suppose I am attached to it. It's the only Sangha I've got so it means a lot to me. I'm sad to see people leave, and yes that does come from attachment. I'm also a moderator for a group and I know it's not always easy. I've had to ban people, mainly trolls. I can understand why some people have been removed from e-Sangha. Why some had to be banned is still a mystery to me. Ultimately I have to respect e-Sangha's policies. While I do that I'll try to work on my attachment.
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:43 pm
by Ceisiwr
jcsuperstar wrote:i think its just a matter of mixing traditions and thinking theres not going to be problems, as if all buddhist traditions have gotten along just fine up until the internet.
dhammawheel is a bit different from esangha as it has a focus of sorts that while open to all traditions theres an expectation that theravada isnt going to be subjected to being "real buddhisms" kid brother. we dont have to deal with hinayana this or provisional buddhism that.
there was once a question posed by a member over there as to why other sects where dismissive of their sect, and i replied that all the members of their sect i had ever met never knew any teachings of buddhism outside of that sect. and i got back basicly that there was no need to learn "provisional buddhism" i didnt go back to respond, but i was left thinking, there's the answer to your question as to why other buddhist dont think to highly of your sect...
and this atitude is found pretty much in all sects,
theres seems to be this attitude that theravada is the basics or foundation of mahayana, but doesnt that imply that it's what you learn first? so all those on the mahayana path should be not only well aquainted with the doctrines of theravada but at least to the level of stream enterer, as that would at least meant that they had the "basics" down before moving on right?
i dont know.. people like to have the last word, and people like to be right, and sometimes its just too much to just leave things be. and the internet lets people say things to other people they may never say in real life. which is a double edged sword
I do agree that it seems most people dont examin the other sects enough, it is important to get a good knowledge of all thats being offered. Myself I will admit that I know very little about mahayana (something that im working on) so I do try to keep an open mind. Trouble is all beginners have craving so it seems natural for them to fall into a trap of grasping at their particular teachings and being dismissive of the rest. Most seem to shake this as there practice goes on but i think some unfortunately stay with it.
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:51 pm
by kc2dpt
genkaku wrote:Elevating or suppressing the one in order to eradicate the other is a fool's errand.
Are you familiar with the Buddha's teaching on
Right Effort?
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:10 am
by appicchato
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:28 am
by Dharmajim
There is an aspect to the history of e-sangha that I think should be taken into account. Many of the initial participants at e-sangha had bitter experience with previous online inter-Buddhist forums. I am thinking particularly of Tricycle, which used to operate an online forum that in some ways was structured along the lines of e-sangha. I was a participant in the Tricycle Forum, so I am speaking from firsthand knowledge.
The Tricycle Forum collapsed due to Tricycle's inability to effectively moderate trolls who became more and more aggressive. Some of their posts bordered on the threatening. My recollection is that at least one person was actually threatened. Sarcasm and name calling became pervasive. When it reached that stage Tricycle closed it down, and I don't blame them. It takes a lot of time and commitment to moderate such a forum and achieving the right balance is a difficult challenge. That is why, when one small Tibetan sect was banned from e-sangha that, in my experience, did not deserve it, I did not protest. I felt that I understood the motivation, which was not to have a repeat of what happened at Tricycle (and some other early online inter-Buddhist groups; for example there was a very large, many thousands, inter-Buddhist group at MSN groups which collapsed for similar reasons).
Understanding this background has helped me to comprehend some of the decisions that were made even when I didn't agree with them. I hope this is of some assistance.
Sincerely,
Jim
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:40 am
by teacup_bo
genkaku wrote:
I may have missed the point -- not unusual -- but I was trying to suggest that the 'good' -- however beautifully wrapped -- and the 'bad' -- however disgustingly portrayed -- come as a single package. So the upshot is, for my money, to investigate the 'good' with as much care as anyone might bring to the 'bad' ... and not be shy about it. Elevating or suppressing the one in order to eradicate the other is a fool's errand.
Or anyway, that's my take.
What genkaku is pointing to is entirely within the sensibilities of the Dhamma masters.
"The teaching of Buddhism is about giving up evil and practicing good. Then, when evil is given up and goodness is established, we must let go of both good and evil."
"The mind of one who practices is the same; it doesn't run away anywhere, it stays right there. Good, evil, happiness, and unhappiness, right and wrong arise, and he knows them all. The meditator simply knows them, they don't enter his mind. That is, he has no clinging. He is simply the experiencer. To say he simply experiences is our common language. In the language of Dhamma we say he lets his mind follow the Middle Way."
Luang Por Chah
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:45 am
by retrofuturist
Hi, Bo!
Metta,
Retro.
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:47 am
by genkaku
Peter wrote:genkaku wrote:Elevating or suppressing the one in order to eradicate the other is a fool's errand.
Are you familiar with the Buddha's teaching on
Right Effort?
Dear Peter -- Thanks very much. I was interested in the phrase, "for the sake of" -- a phrase I did not take to mean using one thing as a means of eradicating another.
But perhaps I am wrong.
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:59 am
by Ngawang Drolma.
genkaku wrote:Peter wrote:genkaku wrote:Elevating or suppressing the one in order to eradicate the other is a fool's errand.
Are you familiar with the Buddha's teaching on
Right Effort?
Dear Peter -- Thanks very much. I was interested in the phrase, "for the sake of" -- a phrase I did not take to mean using one thing as a means of eradicating another.
But perhaps I am wrong.
That was how I took it Genkaku but I seem to have a different interpretation from the other three people who have commented on it.
Lift up that which is wholesome.
Reject that which is unwholesome.
But do them both-it's not like a see-saw with one side relying on the other. It's not like you can't do both at the same time by cultivating Right Intention. They're not interdependent in
that sense. Rather, develop a love for that which is wholesome, and tendency to reject that which is unwholesome without having to weigh one against the other because hopefully with practice it becomes obvious. Change the habits.
Anyhow, that's how I took it. I like my crazy way of reading things :cookoo:
As to the subject at hand, it seems that Retro really put thought into that post he wrote. Cool
I like e-sangha a lot and I read and post there. And when I don't write there I'm still reading usually.
Kindly,
Drolma
Re: E-Sangha
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:02 am
by teacup_bo
retrofuturist wrote: Hi, Bo!
Metta,
Retro.
Hello retro - hope the heat is not too insufferable