The Feminine

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

The Feminine

Postby Ana » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:02 pm

"Men are superior and women are inferior" :cry: :console:


Actually it's quite the opposite: "the feminine is the beginning of everything and man is the end of himself".
I explain, man is greedy and ambitious by nature, he is naturally farer from spirituality while woman is inherently bond to the spiritual world. It is easier for a woman to master and balance her impulses and it's no problem for a woman to live without sex. Buddha nature and becoming a Buddha is becoming feminine, getting rid of all masculine attributes, therefore it is more of a challenge for a spirit to achieve it in a male body, the woman is already feminine so she already has incorporated in her nature some of the characteristics of Buddha nature such as compassion, loving kindness, the will to help other sentient beings and all those qualities that are so characteristic of the feminine. It is exatcly because man is spiritually inferior that the spirit chooses a masculine body, so to make her path harder (it has nothing to do with social or cultural issues which are related to politics and power - if these issues mattered they would be dragging the spirit back to mundane thoughts and activity).
There is no need for women to feel bad about the possibility that spirits choose a masculine reincarnation, like there is no need for man to feel bad about their aggressive nature and spiritual inferior condition that needs to be mastered. Because very soon all men will be women and all women will be men.
However, there is a need to explain this issue about Buddha nature, since for so many milleniuns it hasn't been given the right explanation and it has served many political interested.

;)
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Re: The Feminine

Postby clw_uk » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:07 pm

Isnt this going on the assumption that there is a permanent self or soul that is masculine or feminine or chooses masculine or feminine?


To see one as masculine or feminine is to identify with the body and or mental qualities



:anjali:
Last edited by clw_uk on Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Aloka » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:09 pm

Personally, (as a woman), I would imagine that higher realisation could be described as beyond male or female - in other words not being dependent on sexuality at all.

.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:33 pm

Yanick wrote:However, there is a need to explain this issue about Buddha nature, since for so many milleniuns it hasn't been given the right explanation and it has served many political interested.

Women have the full capacity for full enlightenment. There is no difference between the enlightenment of a male arahant or a female arahant.

If you are referring to a samma-sam-buddha, see the long discussion thread on that.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:36 pm

Yanick wrote:"Men are superior and women are inferior" :cry: :console:

Actually it's quite the opposite: "the feminine is the beginning of everything and man is the end of himself".

Who says that men are superior? Not the Buddha. Some rules and conditions may have been set-up for the societal conditions or for acceptance by the people, but there was no mention of one gender class being superior to another.

My daughter has a most excellent quote in the signature line of her e-mails:

"Women who seek to be equals with men lack ambition."
Timothy Leary
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Re: The Feminine

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:23 pm

"the feminine is the beginning of everything and man is the end of himself".


there can be no feminine without the masculine either though...

they two are not exculsive to each other, they are mutually co-dependent.

there happens to be a lack of balence in the world, but if we tilt to far in the other direction you'll end up with the same problems.

i find you may just be happier following a middle way.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:33 pm

Hi Yanick

When you get the time, you might like to read 'Great Disciples of the Buddha' edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi. Specifically, the chapter titled: Great Women Disciples of the Buddha. The accounts of these women's lives and deliverences are truly extraordinary and very inspirational.
As others have said, gender is no barrier to one becoming an arahant, and an arahant's enlightenment is the same enlightenment of a Buddha. The only main difference is that only a Sammasambuddha, one who rediscovers the Dhamma after it has been lost for aeons, can only be a human male.
Identifying oneself with one's gender is the conceit of 'I', 'me', 'mine'. As the Buddha continually said, there is no abiding core or self to be found anywhere, clinging to or identifying with anything, any concept, including gender, will only result in suffering.
Metta

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Re: The Feminine

Postby Element » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:46 am

Yanick wrote:I explain, man is greedy and ambitious by nature, he is naturally farer from spirituality while woman is inherently bond to the spiritual world.

If so, then why is it when we enter a department store, the cosmetics section is on the ground floor & most other floors are full of items for women to buy?

Women by nature are nest builders. Materialism is rooted in female instincts. A good woman gets a man to work for her. Behind every great man there is a great (greedy ambitious) woman.

We can observe how materialism has grown so greatly ever since Woman's Liberation.

In Thailand, there is a saying the women are proud of: "Man & woman is like a horse and the woman is the back legs. The back legs are the strong legs and a woman pushes".

Image

Yanick wrote:It is easier for a woman to master and balance her impulses and it's no problem for a woman to live without sex.

I think for most women to live without sex is very difficult. Naturally, a woman can govern impulses better than an ignorant man however a wise man has much more control than a wise woman. Whether wise or foolish, a woman's nature is to make babies.

Image

Yanick wrote:Buddha nature and becoming a Buddha is becoming feminine, getting rid of all masculine attributes, therefore it is more of a challenge for a spirit to achieve it in a male body, the woman is already feminine so she already has incorporated in her nature some of the characteristics of Buddha nature such as compassion, loving kindness, the will to help other sentient beings and all those qualities that are so characteristic of the feminine.

When a woman breast feeds a child, this is lust. It is not compassion.

Buddha nature is rooted in fearlessness and solitude. This is a woman's shortcoming, given she is naturally programmed for breast feeding.

Image

Yanick wrote: It is exatcly because man is spiritually inferior that the spirit chooses a masculine body, so to make her path harder (it has nothing to do with social or cultural issues which are related to politics and power - if these issues mattered they would be dragging the spirit back to mundane thoughts and activity).

What "choice"? In my opinion, the very fact that you believe in reincarnation shows your mind is affected by reproductive or breastfeeding instincts.

Image

Yanick wrote:There is no need for women to feel bad about the possibility that spirits choose a masculine reincarnation, like there is no need for man to feel bad about their aggressive nature and spiritual inferior condition that needs to be mastered.


Man loses aggressive when he renounces woman. Aggressiveness is rooted in female ambition. Men often fight over women. Nature makes man aggressive so he can protect women and children.

Image

Yanick wrote:However, there is a need to explain this issue about Buddha nature, since for so many milleniuns it hasn't been given the right explanation and it has served many political interested.


Buddha Nature is the ability to see the world is a illusion. Buddha Nature is emptiness.

ImageImage
Last edited by Element on Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:56 am

Greetings Element,

Element wrote:When a woman breast feeds a child, this is lust. It is not compassion.


That seems an odd comment to me. Why can't it be a similar kind of selfless interest in the child's welfare to that which the Buddha had for his son Rahula?

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If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: The Feminine

Postby Element » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:02 am

retrofuturist wrote:That seems an odd comment to me. Why can't it be a similar kind of selfless interest in the child's welfare to that which the Buddha had for his son Rahula?

I think it is need. The woman needs to feed. It is thirst or tanha.

Hey, just an opinion. :)
Last edited by Element on Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Aloka » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:03 am

When a woman breast feeds a child, this is lust. It is not compassion.

Buddha nature is rooted in fearlessness and solitude. This is a woman's shortcoming, given she is naturally programmed for breast feeding.


How have you come to this conclusion, Element? ...and why is it lust rather than compassion for a woman to breast feed a child?

Personally I have never had a natural inclination to breast feed (nor do I have children) and I delight in solitude - maybe you are mistaken in your assessment of women?
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Element » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:03 am

Dazzlebling wrote:Personally, (as a woman), I would imagine that higher realisation could be described as beyond male or female - in other words not being dependent on sexuality at all.


I agree with Dazz. :goodpost:
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Element » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:09 am

Dazzlebling wrote:How have you come to this conclusion, Element? ...and why is it lust rather than compassion for a woman to breast feed a child?

Instinct is not compassion. Compassion is based in rational wisdom rather than forced instinct.

All animals are breastfeeding their offspring. It is automatic.

Dazzlebling wrote:Personally I have never had a natural inclination to breast feed (nor do I have children) and I delight in solitude - maybe you are mistaken in your assessment of women?

I delight in solitude and have no inclination to mate with women. However, I do not cling to myself as a "man". My empathy towards "men" is not great.
Last edited by Element on Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Aloka » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:18 am

delight in solitude and have no inclination to mate with women. However, I do not cling to myself as a "man".


So how does my delight in solitude and no interest in mating with men differ to yours?
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Element » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:20 am

Dazzlebling wrote:So how does my delight in solitude and no interest in mating with men differ to yours?

Voidness is good. 8-)
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Re: The Feminine

Postby appicchato » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:24 am

Element wrote:
Yanick wrote:In Thailand, there is a saying the women are proud of: "Man & woman is like a horse and the woman is the back legs..

True...although, to be slightly more accurate, it's the hind legs of an elephant... :smile:
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Aloka » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:26 am

Well spoken,Element, but voidness needs also to be accompanied by discerning wisdom.

.
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Element » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:29 am

Dazzlebling wrote:Well spoken,Element, but voidness needs also to be accompanied by discerning wisdom.

What wisdom would that be?

When all of the women in my office drop in showing off their new babies and new grandchildren, is that Buddha-Nature?

When the married men lear out of the window looking at a girl in a bikini at a roof top motel pool, is that Buddha-Nature?
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Re: The Feminine

Postby Aloka » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:43 am

What wisdom would that be?

When all of the women in my office drop in showing off their new babies and new grandchildren, is that Buddha-Nature?

When the married men lear out of the window looking at a girl in a bikini at a roof top motel pool, is that Buddha-Nature


This is just the behaviour of ordinary people who have not looked any further than sensuality or material things, is it not?

.
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