Forbidden Woman

[pelletboy]

Are women engaged to be married part of the list of Forbidden Women you can't have sex with? I read in one list that one "earmarked since birth" is a forbidden women? Does this count if she was engaged later in life yet not yet married? In another list it doesn't state an engaged woman as forbidden but it was replaced with a woman "kept by her husband." Which is which?

[kirk5a]

Are women engaged to be married part of the list of Forbidden Women you can't have sex with? I read in one list that one "earmarked since birth" is a forbidden women? Does this count if she was engaged later in life yet not yet married? In another list it doesn't state an engaged woman as forbidden but it was replaced with a woman "kept by her husband." Which is which?

Sex with an engaged woman or man is against the 3rd precept. If you think about it, you can see the suffering that results there. How would you feel if your fiance had sex with someone else?

[robertk]

Even a prostitute that has been paid for by another man is off limits- you are taking his temporary lover- what more to say of stealing someone's bethrothed.

[pelletboy]

Even a prostitute that has been paid for by another man is off limits- you are taking his temporary lover- what more to say of stealing someone's bethrothed.

Still, a prostitute is said to be a "temporary wife" and why is there a difference between being married and engaged if there is no difference in allowable "space?" I also encountered a story in the Jatakas urging a king to overlook one of his subjects having sex with a girl in his harem. Isn't a woman in a king's harem forbidden as sex partners as well?

[Fede]

Ok, pelletboy, cut the crood... who is she?
Have you met someone?
Is she 'off-limits' in some way?
What concerns do you have about pursuing this?

I suspect many questions regarding the Moral fabric of the Precepts posed in a general way, hide a more specific motivation.
But hey!

I could be waaaaay off bat here.

And if I am, I apologise.....

[pelletboy]

Are women engaged to be married part of the list of Forbidden Women you can't have sex with? I read in one list that one "earmarked since birth" is a forbidden women? Does this count if she was engaged later in life yet not yet married? In another list it doesn't state an engaged woman as forbidden but it was replaced with a woman "kept by her husband." Which is which?

Sex with an engaged woman or man is against the 3rd precept. If you think about it, you can see the suffering that results there. How would you feel if your fiance had sex with someone else?

If the amount of suffering is what's being talked about here, boyfriends or girlfriends who cheat on each other by having sex with other partners would be breaking the 3rd precept but they aren't.

[santa100]

Pelletboy wrote:
If the amount of suffering is what's being talked about here, boyfriends or girlfriends who cheat on each other by having sex with other partners would be breaking the 3rd precept but they aren't.

Notice that suffering is not just limited to "hurting someone's feeling". There're plenty of suffering for those boyfriends or girlfriends: the uncontrollable increase in lust and delusion, the spread of sexual transmitted diseases, wasting of wealth to accomodate multiple partners, wasting of precious time on heedless activities, etc..

[pelletboy]

Yo0u just can't discount that sex is a major part of the joys of the 6 sense heavens and the human realm. Its one of the main good points in the dhamma that reveals to people that many forms of premarital sex are not sin unlike Christianity which suffocates this aspect of life that would give many people such benefits in their emotional demeanor. Of course its a revelation that can benefit or destroy us depending on how mature we are. But still its the truth.

[Tex]

Yo0u just can't discount that sex is a major part of the joys of the 6 sense heavens and the human realm.

Sex is a sensual pleasure, which means that no matter how much we enjoy it, it is inherently dangerous to beings prone to clinging and craving. It should be approached with caution and as much skill as we can manage (until we're ready to eventually let it go altogether).

If the amount of suffering is what's being talked about here, boyfriends or girlfriends who cheat on each other by having sex with other partners would be breaking the 3rd precept but they aren't.

I think some would argue that they are indeed breaking the third precept. Cheating on a partner that you've committed to certainly falls under my personal definition of "sexual misconduct".

Consider this elaboration on the third precept (emphasis added):

And how is one made pure in three ways by bodily action? There is the case where a certain person, abandoning the taking of life, abstains from the taking of life. He dwells with his rod laid down, his knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, compassionate for the welfare of all living beings. Abandoning the taking of what is not given, he abstains from taking what is not given. He does not take, in the manner of a thief, things in a village or a wilderness that belong to others and have not been given by them. Abandoning sensual misconduct, he abstains from sensual misconduct. He does not get sexually involved with those who are protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma; those with husbands, those who entail punishments, or even those crowned with flowers by another man. This is how one is made pure in three ways by bodily action.

Above from: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not entirely sure what "crowned with flowers by another man" means; perhaps that was their customary equivalent of an engagement ring or a promise ring or simply a way of advertising that "this woman and I are together". Regardless, I take the third precept very broadly: I won't touch a woman who has a boyfriend, much less a fiance, and I won't cheat on any woman that I'm committed to, whether the topic of marriage ever comes up or not.

Cliff's Notes: You know sleeping with someone else's fiancee is not okay.