Greetings,
if one uses in his speaking irony, sarcasm or cynicism, is that considered as a violation of the 4th precept (one should not lie)?
Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Last edited by David2 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynism
Good question. I guess it would depend on how it is used and the context. If it is done to poke fun at someone, then it probably would be a violation. If it is to make an important point, without being mean or done in a humorous way, perhaps not.
Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynism
Cynicism probably runs afoul of the admonition to watch after others "...through endurance, through harmlessness, and through a mind of kindness & sympathy" per SN 47.19.
Sarcasm, defined as "the use of irony to mock or convey contempt", strikes me as an obvious example of harsh speech.
However, irony can be put to numerous sorts of uses, so isn't necessarily proscribed. It seems in this case, intention is of paramount importance; irony qua a figure of speech is in and of itself morally neutral.
Sarcasm, defined as "the use of irony to mock or convey contempt", strikes me as an obvious example of harsh speech.
However, irony can be put to numerous sorts of uses, so isn't necessarily proscribed. It seems in this case, intention is of paramount importance; irony qua a figure of speech is in and of itself morally neutral.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Hello David2 , all,
The Fourth Precept is, for me, the hardest one to keep.
It is not just about ‘not lying’.
Here are the Sutta references regarding Right Speech - samma vaca
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
The Fourth Precept is, for me, the hardest one to keep.
It is not just about ‘not lying’.
Here are the Sutta references regarding Right Speech - samma vaca
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Hello David2, all,
Additionally - I have found this, by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, invaluable:
Right Speech From His Own Lips
http://www.suanmokkh.org/archive/rtspch1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
Additionally - I have found this, by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, invaluable:
Right Speech From His Own Lips
http://www.suanmokkh.org/archive/rtspch1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Hello David 2,
Cooran makes a good point.
If you want to know how to approach right speech ask yourself...
Is it true?
Is it gracious?
Is it helpful?
Is it harmonious?
This makes right speech into a constant practice whenever you have anything to say. Practiced in this way it is not a simple matter of following a rule.
Metta
Prasadachitta
Cooran makes a good point.
If you want to know how to approach right speech ask yourself...
Is it true?
Is it gracious?
Is it helpful?
Is it harmonious?
This makes right speech into a constant practice whenever you have anything to say. Practiced in this way it is not a simple matter of following a rule.
Metta
Prasadachitta
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
It may not be in violation of a Precept, but it's boorish and reveals lack of fluency in communication skills. People who rely on such verbal ploys like to think they're presenting themselves as clever, sophisticated, jaded people-of-the-world,floating intellectually above the mundane concerns of the hoi-poloi--when in reality they seem insecure and socially awkward.
M4
M4
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Agree 100%.Good question. I guess it would depend on how it is used and the context. If it is done to poke fun at someone, then it probably would be a violation. If it is to make an important point, without being mean or done in a humorous way, perhaps not.
Re: Irony, sarcasm, cynicism
Thanks everybody.
Another one:
Would the Buddha talk like this?
I think the Buddha would not use irony, sarcasm and cynicism, so the simplest way is to just not use them.
Yes, good questions.Prasadachitta wrote: If you want to know how to approach right speech ask yourself...
Is it true?
Is it gracious?
Is it helpful?
Is it harmonious?
Another one:
Would the Buddha talk like this?
I think the Buddha would not use irony, sarcasm and cynicism, so the simplest way is to just not use them.