Tantric Theravada?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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mirco
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by mirco »

gavesako wrote:BANA BHANTE of Bangladesh is regarded as an Arahant by Buddhists of Bangladesh ...
Thank you, Venerable Sir.

There are some videos of him on uTube.

Maybe someone knows of transcriptions+translations of any of his teachings?


Regards, :-)
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rowboat
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by rowboat »

mirco wrote:
gavesako wrote:BANA BHANTE of Bangladesh is regarded as an Arahant by Buddhists of Bangladesh ...
Thank you, Venerable Sir.

There are some videos of him on uTube.

Maybe someone knows of transcriptions+translations of any of his teachings?


Regards, :-)
First, thank you Bhante Gavesako for your contributions on this thread.

mirco, here is some contact information for Bana Bhante. These people should be able to help you if there are any translations of Venerable Bana Bhante:

email: [email protected]
Office: Room No. 2/1, Gate Building, Rajbana Vihara, Rangamati- 4500, Bangladesh.
Location: Rajbana Vihara Complex, 4500 Rangamati, Bangladesh
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
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DarwidHalim
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by DarwidHalim »

The title of this thread attract my attention.

May I know bhante, what make you put the title as 'Tantric Theravada'

When I look into te article, I am looking for a component, which can be considered as tantra part.

I cannot find it.

I found this'
...A new sphere brighter and clearer than the last will appear at the centre which is called the sphere of self-discipline. In the same way, the sphere of concentration, the sphere of wisdom, the sphere of liberation, the sphere of knowledge and vision of liberation can be attained in sequence. If one stops one's mind at the point at the centre of the sphere, it will enlarge until it is so large that its edges disappear over the horizon allowing one to see the subtle human body inside - an inner body that looks the same as the physical body, but more radiant. On attaining the subtle human body, the realization will arise in the mind that...

This is not tantra, this is simply a meditation technique with light.

Tantra meditation plays with our inner energy. The breathing is modified in such as way and this body is viewed in such a way to open our chakra. We make use of this chakra benefit to directly experience emptiness.

I don't see any energy component inside your article and to me that is not tantra at all.

What make you put the title as Tantric Theravada?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

As I mentioned in the first post, the term "tantra" is hard to define and various scholars disagree about exactly which elements it encompasses. It certainly has to do with techniques of visualisation, energy flows in the body, and mantra recitation.

The term yogāvacara, and less commonly yogin/yogī, stands for 'meditator' in Visuddhimagga and Pali commentaries.

The term yogāvacarabhikkhu, 'meditator-bhikkhu' is only found two times in the Pali commentaries and a dozen or so times in the sub-commentaries, whereas yogāvacara is relatively common and is already found in the Paṭisambhidāmagga and Peṭakopadesa.

The Patisambhidamagga commentary defines yogāvacaro, but it is hard to translate literally because of double senses.
Yogāvacaroti samathayoge, vipassanāyoge vā avacaratīti yogāvacaro. Avacaratīti pavisitvā caratī ti. : ''One who is engaged in meditation-exercise: he is engaged in the meditation-exercise of insight and the meditation-exercise of serenity, [therefore he is called] one who is occupied with meditation-exercise. Engaged in: having entered upon, he exercises.''

In modern times the term yogāvacara has come to be associated with what is called 'Khmer esoteric/tantric Buddhism,' etc, denoting the mixture of Buddhist meditation and chanting with tantra, yantras and mantras, white magic, invocations, etc. as commonly practiced in Thailand, Cambodia and Laos.

Perhaps the rise of the Srivijaya or one of the Khmer dynasties in which both Theravada, Vajrayana and the Buddhism of various Mahayana schools were all practiced, promoted and even syncretized in various ways was the origin. The same syncretization also happened in India (Tantra, Yoga) and Tibet (with the Bon tradition) and it was carried on in South East Asia. There was the official textual & doctrinal Buddhism, but on the other hand there were, and are, all sorts of other unofficial, non-doctrinal 'esoteric' practices going on besides or underneath, which were sometimes textualised and sometimes not.

In the mid 18th century this mixture of Buddhist meditation, ritual and esoteric practices was introduced into the Kandyan Kingdom by Thai monks from the Ayutthaya Kingdom. It was taught to monks of the Asgiriya Nikāya, who saw themselves as the inheritors of the forest dwelling, vanavasin, tradition, and founded several meditation hermitages around Kandy to practice meditation as taught by the Thais. The practices were written down in a manual called Cattālisa Kammaṭṭhāna or Vidarsana Potha, Amatakaravaṇṇana, Yogijanakanta-vimuttimagga, etc, of which several versions exist (Or different manuals were composed. This is not clear, as not much research has been done on the manuals as they are mostly in a mixture of Pali and Sinhala.). One of the versions was translated as 'The Manual of the Mystic: The Yogavachara's Manual' and was published by the PTS. See http://ebook.lib.hku.hk/CADAL/B31448586/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The yogāvacara practice by the Asgiriya monks did not last long and nothing remains of this meditation tradition except the manuscripts with the manuals and the hermitages, which are now village temples.

This 'esoteric' tradition was also carried to England by the Thai man who founded the Samatha Group in Cambridge. Apparently they do an unusual meditation practice in which the 32 physical characteristics of the Buddha are visualized in their own bodies together with Pali paritta chanting. See http://www.samatha.org/texts/samatha-bu ... tion-texts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The introduction of practices such as the visualizations of the marks (laksana + anuvyanjana) of the Buddha(s) - practices that we can relate to the Buddhanussati/Buddhanusmrti traditions that begun probably not long after the parinibbana of the Buddha as a means of establishing an emotional/religious/empowering connection with the deceased master - are most likely among the first signs of the incipient "Mahayana" in Indian Buddhism. They started among followers of "traditional Buddhism" and had nothing particularly "esoteric" about them, originally. They had a devotional aspect and a meditative side to them. Early Mahayana sutras such as the Pratyutpannabuddhasamukhavastitasamadhi-sutra (studied by Paul Harrison) and even the Astasahasrikaprajnaparamita discuss the significance of the laksanas as Dharmamukhas. There provided 'Dharmic' rather than "energetic" empowerment, so to speak. These practices were most likely mass practices, I'd say, i.e., the opposite of esoteric or secret, and far more accessible than other types of meditation or doctrinal study.
After the passing of the Buddha, only two of the Three Jewels were really present to followers: Dhamma and Sangha, and visualisation of the Buddha was probably simply a way of making the first, and perhaps, chief jewel present to the devotee.

:buddha1:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Here is a Facebook page for Bana Bhante in Bangladesh with many photos (note that "b" and "v" are often interchangeable in Pali):

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bono-Vante/191946346982" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Location
Rajbana Vihara, Rangamati, Bangladesh
Birthday
8 January 1920
Biography
His Holiness Ven. Sadhanananda Mahathero(Bana Bhante)

About Ven. Bana Bhante:

Ven. Bana Bhante(the forest monk) is the well-known, famously worshipped, clairvoyant, omnipotent, omniscient Bhikkshu in Bangladesh who has attained the highest magga 'Arahanta'. For over forty years, transcending religious barriers, creed, and other societal divisions, he has been providing directions to people from all walks of life much like Lord Gautama Buddha, about their moral and spiritual developments. As such, Ven. Banabhante has never been beholden to any particualr sects or segments of population nor to any particular individuals for their devotion to him as arduous devotees. Belonging to no one , he truly belongs to ALL of those who come to embrace his edifying ideals to enrich their lives by nurturing and cultivating 'kusala kamma'.

As an Arahanta, His Holiness Ven. Banabhante maintains strict discipline in upholding dictates of Lord Buddha for the 'Sangha' entailed in 'Binoypitok' and he steadfastly avoids any claims of ownership on anything --money, expensive gifts, material property, and 'special devotees' . Individuals by their own merits and contents of inner qualities can endear themselves to Ven. Banabhantee and as such one's nearness to the venerable Bhikkshu cannot be deemed as his personal preferences. Indeed, as a clairvoyant Arahanta, he can instantly view latent merits or 'lack of' among his devotees. For he has risen to the summit heights of immesuarable achievements surpassing normative, ontological boundaries. His fundamental philosophy and teachings emanate from Buddha's teachings as he reminds everyone in quotidian living the importance and needs for observance of Lord Buddha's principles of 'sila'(good conduct), 'samadhi'(right meditation), and 'prajna'(attainment of wisdom).

As life cannot be divorced from diurnal existence, it becomes all the more urgent that we pay attention to our conducts and Ven. Bana Bhante passionately propounds that flourishing of inner virtues lie inextricably intertwined with our mental inclinations. Our actions with putrid predilections will inevitably bring about unwholesome outcomes embodying 'dukkha' meaning sufferings. His teachings are pointed remarks on endless sufferings mired in our cycles of rebirths and stark reminders that our actions yield unavoidable consequences based on its own merits.There is no magic wand by which one's mischievous deeds could simply be, despite infinite wishes, washed away or wiped off by some miraculous quackery. Thus, grounded in scientific reality of inter-connectedness between causes and effects, and in reasonable discernment Ven. Bana Bhante envisions a community of present and future progenies who would adhesively adhere to edifying conducts devoid of 'Ahimsa', hidden jealousy, envy, acrimonious feelings and other conducts borne out of filthy perversities--in thoughts, words, and in all kinds of daily activities. As we yearn to live in peace and harmony, our actions must coincide with our inner state of mind. Negative, unwholesome thoughts with mental defilements will inevitably breed unwanted, undesirable outcome. One needs to investigate into the nature of reality by delving deep into the reality of mind and matter within self, not in the form penance, but in sincere attempts to extricate mind from inward defilements. Careful observations of reality by interrogating the nature of relaity leads to observation of truth. It is to know the self through process of self-examination.That investigation requires vigilence, self-discipline and incisive self-analyses into the contents of our thoughts. This art of living is deeply embedded in Vipassana Meditation

Born in Rangamati, on the auspicious day of 8th January, 1920, Rathindranath bore signs of an occult and astounding greatness. His gaze since childhood was set on a far distant future as though he remained deeply absorbed in compassionate contemplation at humanity's intense sufferings and finding ways to alleviate their pains and incalculable misery. His observations on the world around us gave him the determinations to set out in search of 'Saimyak gyan' or right views. Merely a novice in the Buddhist Sangha, the 'Rathindra Sraman' made a query to his then teacher Sri Dipankar Mahathero who were staying at Chittagong Buddhist temple. His teacher was startled by his disciples' rather audacious inquiry-'how to attain right wisdom' or 'Prajna'. The young 'samana' was discontent at heart as he failed to quench his bubbled up thirst to grasp the infinite, immesuarable, and ineffable. An enormous inward transformation brought about a stupendous, supramental consciousness as 'Rathindranath Sraman' embarked on his unkown journey at nearby Longhadhu Forest adjacent to his childhood residence at Dhanpata forsaking mortal dangers, agonies of sensory deprivations of foods and shelter. He was fearless like Siddharta Sri Goutama whose 'mahaviniskraman' certainly gave him the exemplary impetus to be worth emulating. And, Rathindranath after 12 years of austere practice of Bippassana emerged as the 'Forest Monk', the venerable 'Bana Bhante'. The uniqueness of 'Bana Bhante's' emergence did not simply come from introspective dissection or from intellectual analyses of contents of his vast consciousness. It had gone through a gigantic inward transformation saturated in his unnerving determination like Tennyson's Ulysses--'to strive, to seek, and to find, but never to yield'.

It is difficult to fathom the depth , scope , intensity of this 'great sage' , but one can speculate Sri Aurobindo's eternal words reverberating in the contours of Bana Bhante's enormous psyche--'man is Nature's great item of transition in which she grows Conscious of her aim. In him she looks from the animal with open eyes towards the divine ideal'. It was , indeed, this imperceptible , yet intensely palpable at heart which propelled to remind within him rather incessently the Nietschzean ideal--'If the night and the day are such that you greet them with joy, if life emits a fragrance like flowers and sweet scented herbs, is more elastic, more starry, and more immortal; that is your success''. To Ven. Bana Bhante, life is like Nietschze' s vision which means 'for us constantly to transform into light and flame all that we are and we meet with'. He drew the lesson from Buddha-'Atma Dipa Biharena Atma Sarana Aynya Sarana' meaning 'Know thyself' and entuned his mind, heart and entire being into Shakespearean addage--'To thine own self be true , Then it must follow as night the day'. His significance, therefore, can be discerned not only to those who are initiated but to the values he remotely suggests by this extraordinary manifestation of the superhuman in the process of his 'becoming' into the 'Bana Bhante'. His titanic influence has spread an immense awareness and has compelled a vast sea of humanity in his surrounding region to retreat from habitual walks and to aspire to redefine their lives by 'practices of Bipassana'. Like T. S. Eliot, Ven. Banabhante portrays the stark futility of human existence in his unceasing advocacy for ' continence', 'metta' and 'peaceful co-existence' in a world where blood shook his heart at 'The awful daring of a moment's surrender, which an age of prudence can never retract, by this , and this only, we have existed which is not to be found in our obituaries, or in memories draped by the beneficient spider' (Wasteland, T.S. Eliot). In such a world with full of 'endless duhkkha' Eliot's condign depiction finds a striking resonance in Ven. Banabhante's tireless espousal at needs for inward transformations. As the mortal existence in his view--"Here one can neither stand nor lie nor sit, there is not even silence in the mountains, but dry sterile thunder without rain, there is not even solitude in the mountains"(Wasteland, T.S.Eliot). It must be pointed out that he is not a messanger of gloom and despondency in our present existence but his emphasis is on needs for upliftment so as to eschew fatal consequences of 'Akusala Kamma'--unwholesome actions . He often questions 'how life can be lost in living' so that we engage in our efforts at seeking significance of life in our mortal existence

Discourses of Ven. Bana Bhante:

This body is borne out of 'Abidya' meaning ignorance and 'Tanha'meaning desire. The conjunction of 'Abidya' and 'Tanha' , instantaneously, results in birth of 'Panchaskandha'. So, the utmost efforts must be there to manintain an awareness about the nature of 'Abidya'. It means to be aware of all activities pervading our daily existence. Ven. Bana Bhante lays tremendous emphasis on the 'Satipatthana Vipassana' and is scornful of weak resolves of small motivations. He reminds that a ceaseless stream of efforts and awareness are essential requirements for practice of Vipassana Meditation . It is to cultivate choiceless awareness in the continuous movements of 'seeing', 'hearing', 'thinking' , imagining' etc. A beginner should endeavour to contemplate on 'arising' and 'vanishing' which eventually will give rise to 'insight of illness'.

This human existence in an individual may not take rebirth in human form once again, Ven. Banabhante sternly warns quite often as the next round of re-birth could take place in the unhappy life of lower existence. Everyone ought, therefore, strive to reach the first stage of 'Sottapatti magga' as a minimum achievement in this life. Ven. Bana Bhante's teachings and discourses focus essentially on Lord Buddha's 'Pratitya Samutpada Niti'--the laws of causations. He notes that efforts in mental discipline all too often is accompanied with unwanted tedious labor without delight , but the realization of nature of 'dukkha' and 'impermnance' will bring forth compassionate 'panna' to heal those wounds long-suppressed in the heart.

It is a frivolous exercise of preposterously empty-headed mind to be indulging into confabulation of 'Nature of Nibbana' with adornments of verbal ornamentation, wheareas a mind remains quagmired, inescapbly, in petty calculations of earning a little name and fame of being a 'writer' or 'thinker' in so doing and harboring surruptitiously hidden jealousy, envy and other mental defilements. It is pragmatic rather not to dwell on this imagined state of "Nibbana' but to work with steely determination in attaining 'magga' by delving deep into the practices of mindfulness with an inexorable pace. It is imperative that a mind extricate fully from 'kama'-'lustful thoughts' long before one ponders on the 'state of Nibbana'. From a sloka in Dhammapada, one can discern the fatal consequences of lustful thoughts forewarned by Lord Buddha--'Kamatu jayate shoka, Kamatu jayate bhayang, Kamatu bippimuttassu natthi shoka kutu bhayang'. The ideation and identification of sense of ''me', or 'I' is borne out of misperceived assumptions inbred within us in the form of 'ignorance'. This ignorance is of 'Lokuttara Gyan', which cannot be erased by accumulation of institutional knowledge or by resorting to pedagogy of an instructional curriculum by any self-acclaimed, clever saints espousing various adjectives of religiousity, at times, far-fatched, about the unseen, unfelt qualities of 'Nibbana'. Leaving cacophonies of such self-professed attributes of 'emptiness' from caterwauls of Sadhus aside, Ven. Banabhante once described ' Nibbana' as cessation of all 'dukkhas'. His attainment of "Nibbana' is epitomized in his very self-absorbed, succinct depiction of a sublime state which needed no cliched, tautological , and tortured wordings like crochet cross-gained of a mundane wordsmith. There lurks a hidden danger in such labybrinthine web of ornamentations as it represents an insidious image of vain glory in the guise of substantive discourse. It is also important to decipher the actual meanings of 'Etipiso Bhagava, Arahang, Samma Sambuddho, Bijja-charana samppnna, Sugata, Lokabido, Anuttara, Puriso Dhamma Sarathi, Satta, Deba, Manussacha, Buddho bhagabati'. The critical emphasis, Ven BanaBhante mentions is on the word 'Etipiso' meaning 'This is the'. It refres to 'absolute', uneqivocal, irreconcilable, recondite and 'Adaitavm'. The uniqueness of the Lord Buddha's teachings sets him apart and Ven. Bana Bhante's emanenace as embodiment of Buddha's teachings mark a pronounced departure from teachings of other 'luminaries' amongst our contemporary epoch-makers or trend-setters. After all, all that glitters is not gold and one can think of only Krishnamurti who has ascended to that identical stage of spritual pre-eminence. It will, therefore, be misleading to bring into the discourses of Ven. Banabhante a quixotic and arbitrary relevance of 'others who are temperamentally and philosophically, unrelated to his 'Panna' or 'Wisdom', just beacuse one has read about them 'a little' and can bridge a connection by some melange of words according to one's inclinations to profess to be a reservoir, albeit mini, of infinite knowledge. It must be emphasized here that Lord Buddha counseled humanity to 'expand compassion to all living beings just as a mother distributes her boundless love for her only offspring'. ........'Mata Yata Niyang Puttang, Ayusa Eka Putta Manurakhye, Ebampi Sabba Bhutesu, Manasang Bhavaye aparimang'. As the true disciple of Buddha , Ven. BanaBhante stressed solely on 'peaceful co-existence, on metta, even when he was faced with 'sagacious or practical choices' on numerous occassions as was witnessed by this author. His instructions were on farewell to arms adhering to Buddha's principles of 'peaceful co-existence'. The significance of Ven. Banabhante's emanace, seems to me, lies in averting a cataclysmic maelstorm surrounding his native region where as an apostle of peace he made us aware of 'higher values' in our spiritual journey and in so doing, he resonated teachings of Lord Gautam Buddha. It is in the principles of 'Ahimsa' 'metta' and peaceful co-existence, we can attain some measure of sanity in our daily living.


Ven. Bana Bhante resides at Raj Bana Bihar, Rangamati, Chittagong, Bangladesh. Contents collated and and authored by: Ranjan Kumar Barua, U.S.A, 2008.authored by: Ranjan Kumar Barua, U.S.A, 2008.eschewing all kinds of hostile activities and practising equinimity, ceaselessly, even in the face of extreme provocation and to adjust a living upholding principles of 'peaceful co-existence'. The significance of Ven. Banabhante's emanace, seems to me, lies in averting a cataclysmic maelstorm surrounding his native region where as an apostle of peace he made us aware of 'higher values' in our spiritual journey and in so doing, he resonated teachings of Lord Gautam Buddha. It is in the principles of 'Ahimsa' 'metta' and peaceful co-existence, we can attain some measure of sanity in our daily living.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Like Kitesvara Lokanattha – Arahat still lives in this world.
(18 Lohans (Arahats) including Rahula Thera)


Of the four stages of Ariya – sotapanna, sekadagami, anagami and Arahat - , Arahat is the ultimate stage in Theravada Sect; where else Bodhisatta (Bodhisattvas) is the ultimate stage in Mahayana sect. Both Theravada and Mahayana revere Sakkyamuni (Gotama Buddha) as supreme Buddha. There is only one teaching Buddha appears in an era.There is only one Buddha in any given era, and the best that a Theravadin could hope for Arahatship. Both man and woman could develop their spiritual progress to attain arahatship. In early Buddhism, in the life time of our Lord Buddha, he had established Sangha order to include both man and women; the male Arahat is called Thera and the woman Arahat is called Theri. Arahat possesses six supernatural powers and one of them is the ability to fly like bird in the sky. Therefore, at the start of Buddhism, both male and female arahats were seen in the sky journeying to places of their destination. There is a question in Theravada – asking:

“Whether an Arahat reappear in this world after he/she took parinibbana?

Many of Theravadins will say, after parinibbana an Arahat no longer live in this world. Since there is no longer rebirth for them, why then in Myanmar people still worship Shin Thiwali (Sivali Thera) and Shin Upagote (Moggaliputta Tissa Maha Thera) for protection and accumulation of wealth?

Shin Upagote (Upagutta) – for protection against evil doers
Shin Thiwali (Sivali) – for wealth and fortune.

...

http://maungpaw.blogspot.com/2006/11/li ... still.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Worship of Arahat

Worshipping an arahat is a tradition known only in Mahayana sect; however, in Theravada country like Myanmar, Buddhists pay reverence to Sivali Thera (Shin Thiwali) believing that he will bring abundance of wealth and riches to ease the pain and suffering of living in this mundane world. Maha Sivali (Shin Thi Wa Li Thera) image is being highly revered by many Buddhist householders in Myanmar.
Sivali Thera, at the time of Buddha, was declared by Buddha to be the foremost in receiving the most requisites among the Buddha disciples. His image is considered as a talisman or charm that brings wealth and worldly riches.
...
http://maungpaw.blogspot.com/2006/05/wo ... rahat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Signs of Holiness in Buddhist Dhamma Practice

Several decades in the past many in Myanmar practice Samatha Bhavana; today, the trend has changed to Vipassana as people follow the trendy Vipassana meditation centers. Monks and laities in those days wear meditation mala beads (seikbade) in their hands as opposed to monks of today who feel shy to wear mala beads openly in public.

There are two practices known by the Pali word: Bhavana: one can practice either Samatha or Vipassana Bhavana. Both practices are nothing more than cultivating and developing one’s mind by repeated scrutinizing, meditating or contemplating to penetrate the truth. It is a mental task of continuous recitation or repeated scrutinizing. In the beginning of each of these two practices, meditators with close affinity to Devas and Brahmas will sense through physically the feeling of electricity hovering around oneself, which is known as aura or presence of spirit or spirits. It is a sign of holiness of a person.
...
http://maungpaw.blogspot.com/2006/06/si ... hamma.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Does Divine eye indicates spiritual attainment?


In practicing the Buddha’s instruction, there were in the past, some who had attained Sotapanna (stream winner), Sekadagami (once returner) or anagami (non-returner. At this spiritual level of attainment, they were able to communicate with devas. In Dhammapada verses 73/74, we learnt that Citta had gained the level of Anagami (non-returner). So when he was in his death bed, the garden devas, forest devas, tree devas, and devas inhabiting herbs, grasses, and forest giants assembled and together came to suggest to him to wish for a wheel-turning monarch in his next life. Based on the story of Citta (Gilana sutta), we perhaps can say that those who had attained sotapanna, sekadagami or anagami should already have attained the supernatural power of:

The divine ability to communicate with devas.
The divine eye to see devas

An individual having a divine eye and divine ability to talk to devas are indications that he/she has attained a certain level of spiritual attainment. I will present the Gilana sutta, the story of Citta to support this assumption. This story also tells us that there are all kinds of devas living in the environment around us. It is up to individual who respect devas to pay respect to devas for mundane benefit in this very life. In some way Citta found devas very helpful for affirmation of his virtuous life style.
...
http://maungpaw.blogspot.com/2006/07/do ... itual.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Clarence
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Clarence »

Venerable,

Thanks for your posts. They are very informative and interesting. I had no idea about a lot of these practices.

Are you practicing yourself now in the tradition of Tantric Theravada? Very curious whether or not there are still teachers teaching this kind of stuff.

Best, C
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Mr. G
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Mr. G »

Fascinating Bhante! Thank you!
Even if my body should be burnt to death
In the fires of hell,
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice
- Gandavyuha Sutra
plwk
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by plwk »

As I mentioned in the first post, the term "tantra" is hard to define and various scholars disagree about exactly which elements it encompasses. It certainly has to do with techniques of visualisation, energy flows in the body, and mantra recitation.
Agreed Bhante. Amongst the so many 'exotic' ones, I find HHDL's most fascinating...
Image pg.111-12
Tantra is limited to persons whose compassion is so great that they cannot bear to spend unnecessary time in attaining Buddhahood, as they want to be a supreme source of help and happiness for others quickly
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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

Clarence wrote:Venerable,

Thanks for your posts. They are very informative and interesting. I had no idea about a lot of these practices.

Are you practicing yourself now in the tradition of Tantric Theravada? Very curious whether or not there are still teachers teaching this kind of stuff.

Best, C
No, I am just a detached observer. But the longer I stay in the Theravada tradition and learn about the cultures in Asia and the beliefs and practices of Theravada Buddhists, I have to expand my understanding of the whole tradition and include all these aspects as well. They are still very much part of the living tradition, even though not officially acknowledged in the typical books which only focus on the "ideal form" of Theravada Buddhism according to the Pali scriptures.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
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Clarence
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:49 pm

Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Clarence »

gavesako wrote:
Clarence wrote:Venerable,

Thanks for your posts. They are very informative and interesting. I had no idea about a lot of these practices.

Are you practicing yourself now in the tradition of Tantric Theravada? Very curious whether or not there are still teachers teaching this kind of stuff.

Best, C
No, I am just a detached observer. But the longer I stay in the Theravada tradition and learn about the cultures in Asia and the beliefs and practices of Theravada Buddhists, I have to expand my understanding of the whole tradition and include all these aspects as well. They are still very much part of the living tradition, even though not officially acknowledged in the typical books which only focus on the "ideal form" of Theravada Buddhism according to the Pali scriptures.
1
Thanks. I hope people won't come down too hard on you. We tend to like our ideal forms. :-)
kirtu
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by kirtu »

gavesako wrote:Anything to do with Buddha pouring or casting ceremonies involves a lot of "tantric" magic. Below you can see Reusi Kesa-kaew, a well-known rishi with long hair who gets invited to some forest monasteries as well and has a bodhisattva reputation, presiding over such a ceremony together with a monk:

http://board.palungjit.com/f2/almine-%E ... 634-8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhante -

Thank-you for your fascinating thread.

What is the role of a rishi in the Theravadin tradition? I'm quite surprised to hear the term used amongst Theravadins. Would a rishi only be a layperson or would it be possible for a monk as well (I'm thinking of stories of monks meditating their whole lives on lovingkindness for the world for example)?

Thanks!

Kirt
Gena1480
Posts: 308
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by Gena1480 »

i just read a sutta that Buddha does not tell his disciples to show the powers
yet he gives instruction in the sutta, the power of instruction is allowed
one of the physic powers
showing such power
and giving instruction on how to attain it
giving instruction is allowed
but if showed
the Buddha tells that people will
think that it because of not the power of the mind
but by the way of magic
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gavesako
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Re: Tantric Theravada?

Post by gavesako »

I know that in Thailand and Burma there are such rishis who specialize in magic and all kinds of rituals. Rishis of course occur in the Buddhist texts as well, so these rishis style themselves after them. In some cases they are more like white-clothes laymen living in solitude and meditating. Their meditation methods would be focused on visions and predictions of future events, and gaining powers of various sorts. But they are acknowledged and venerated by the general Buddhist population as well, and in some cases they might be seen as Buddhas-in-the-making (i.e. Bodhisattvas) who are now at the stage of "building up parami". In the Jataka tales, the Buddha-to-be was sometimes also such a rishi.
Last edited by gavesako on Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
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