tiltbillings wrote:So, there is some pre-existing thing that is required for awakening.Martin Po wrote:It's impossible to uproot greed, hatred and delusion witout Nibbana-element.
Yes, but it exist only in reference to samsara. Like 0 and 1.
When some one is in jail, there is conception/idea/namarupa of liberty for him; You can be freed only when you are enchained. But if you are already free, there is no such conception/idea/namarupa as liberty, because liberty is not-existent, only jail is existent, that why jail can be finished, but not liberty.
Nibbana-element is in other side of our consciousness (SN 55.5, MN 44), consciousness is a result of Nibbana-element. Without pure element, on which information becomes apparent, there is no consciousness. Like without a white paper ink not becomes apparent.
Like a sound and silence, movement and stability stability, 1 and 0, etc.
Can we say that there is sound without silence? No.
Can we say that there is silence-element? Yes we can.
But do it realy "exist"? No, because silence become apparent in comparison of sound. Because silence is not-sound, absence of sound, and have no any other quality, only a non-sound quality.
It is possible to be liberated from sound without silence? No.
At the same way, it is impossible to be liberated from jail if there is no freedom. No.
At the same way it is impossible to "be liberated" from Samsara if there is no Nibbana. No.
But Nibbana-element have any quality other than non-Samsara, non-dukkha, non-agging, non-death etc? No.
Ud 8.1 PTS: Ud 80
Nibbāna Sutta: Unbinding (1)
There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished, unevolving, without support [mental object]. This, just this, is the end of stress.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html