Soul???

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Soul???

Postby clw_uk » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:12 pm

Greetings



I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Sakyans near Kapilavatthu in Nigrodha's Park. Then Mahanama the Sakyan went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Lord, this Kapilavatthu is rich & prosperous, populous & crowded, its alleys congested. Sometimes, when I enter Kapilavatthu in the evening after visiting with the Blessed One or with the monks who inspire the mind, I meet up with a runaway elephant, a runaway horse, a runaway chariot, a runaway cart, or a runaway person. At times like that my mindfulness with regard to the Blessed One gets muddled, my mindfulness with regard to the Dhamma... the Sangha gets muddled. The thought occurs to me, 'If I were to die at this moment, what would be my destination? What would be my future course?"

"Have no fear, Mahanama! Have no fear! Your death will not be a bad one, your demise will not be bad. If one's mind has long been nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, nurtured with learning, nurtured with relinquishment, nurtured with discernment, then when the body — endowed with form, composed of the four primary elements, born from mother & father, nourished with rice & porridge, subject to inconstancy, rubbing, pressing, dissolution, & dispersion — is eaten by crows, vultures, hawks, dogs, hyenas, or all sorts of creatures, nevertheless the mind — long nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, learning, relinquishment, & discernment — rises upward and separates out.

"Suppose a man were to throw a jar of ghee or a jar of oil into a deep lake of water, where it would break. There the shards & jar-fragments would go down, while the ghee or oil would rise upward and separate out. In the same way, if one's mind has long been nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, nurtured with learning, nurtured with relinquishment, nurtured with discernment, then when the body... is eaten by crows, vultures, hawks, dogs, hyenas, or all sorts of creatures, nevertheless the mind... rises upward and separates out.

"Have no fear, Mahanama! Have no fear! Your death will not be a bad one, your demise will not be bad."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Im a bit confused here since it states that the "mind" rises out of the body, which to me suggests some kind of idea of soul, what is being refered to here?


Metta
Open your mind and see, open your mind and rise. Shine the light of wisdom and see, don't wait till the end of time.
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Re: Soul???

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:14 pm

Bhikkhu Bodhi says:

Bodhi wrote:The passage shows citta as the principle of personal continuity which survives the death of the body and reaps the fruits of kamma. In the case of a noble disciple it "goes to distinction" by way of a higher rebirth and by evolving onwards to Nibbana.


So basically standard rebirth stuff - the mind does not die with the body.
- Peter

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Re: Soul???

Postby cooran » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:34 pm

Hello Peter,

Yes ...

But the Dhamma understanding of the 'Mind' is not the same as that conveyed by everyday language - otherwise it would seem to be just a synonym for 'soul' ... which it isn't. Cittas arise and fall away with blinding speed.

"Past, present and future lives are an unbroken series of cittas. Each citta which arises falls away immediately to be succeeded by the next citta. Cittas do not last, but there isn't any moment without citta. If there were moments without citta the body would be a dead body. Even when we are sound asleep there is citta. Each citta which arises falls away but it conditions the next citta and even so the last citta of this life conditions the first citta of the next life, the rebirth- consciousness. Thus we see that life goes on and on. We are moving in a cycle, the cycle of birth and death."
Abhidhamma in daily life - Nina Van Gorkom Chapter 3 - DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF CITTA
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index. ... opic=60070

metta
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Re: Soul???

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:00 pm

Yep. Or to put it another way: mind is not a thing but rather a process.
- Peter

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Re: Soul???

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:24 pm

Peter wrote:Yep. Or to put it another way: mind is not a thing but rather a process.


Thanks for this reminder. So few words imply so much :anjali:
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