Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

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Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby fijiNut » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:53 am

My family is commemorating the death of my father who passed in his sleep next weekend at the cemetery, it will be three years since his passing.

He didn't have much beliefs religion wise, but you could pass him as a pseudo-Buddhist/Taoist.

Are chants reserved only for the Sangha or can a lay person chant too? There is an associated 'water pouring' ceremony I've seen some Buddhist do, does that have any Sutta backing or is it a contemporary practice?
I would appreciate any advice on this matter.

I particularly like:

Yathā vārivahā pūrā
Paripūrenti sāgaraṃ
Evameva ito dinnaṃ
Petānaṃ upakappati
Icchitaṃ patthitaṃ tumhaṃ
Khippameva samijjhatu
Sabbe pūrentu saṅkappā
Cando paṇṇaraso yathā
Maṇi jotiraso yathā.

Sabbītiyo vivajjantu
Sabba-rogo vinassatu
Mā te bhavatvantarāyo
Sukhī dīghāyuko bhava
Abhivādana-sīlissa
Niccaṃ vuḍḍhāpacāyino
Cattāro dhammā vaḍḍhanti
Āyu vaṇṇo sukhaṃ, balaṃ.


which translates to:
Just as rivers full of water
fill the ocean full,
Even so does that here given
benefit the dead (the hungry shades).
May whatever you wish or want quickly come to be,
May all your aspirations be fulfilled,
as the moon on the fifteenth (full moon) day,
or as a radiant, bright gem.

May all distresses be averted,
may every disease be destroyed,
May there be no dangers for you,
May you be happy & live long.
For one of respectful nature who
constantly honors the worthy,
Four qualities increase:
long life, beauty, happiness, strength.

thanks,
fijiNut
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:54 pm

Hi Fijinut,

fijiNut wrote:Are chants reserved only for the Sangha or can a lay person chant too?


Laypeople can chant too.

There is an associated 'water pouring' ceremony I've seen some Buddhist do, does that have any Sutta backing or is it a contemporary practice?


It was a practice that was certainly well-established by the time of Buddhaghosa and was held by the commentators to go back to the Buddha's time. I think there's also mention of it in the Milindapañha. The gathas you cited, that are used in this connection, are a combination of some passages from the Tirokudda Sutta and some others preserved in the Pali commentaries.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby fijiNut » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:22 pm

Thank you for your clarification Bhante.

Also, another question I wanted to ask is whether chanting for Dhammayut and Mahanikaya sects are different in wording (phrasing) in Thailand?
The reason why I asked is that I might want to visit Thailand at one point particularly Wat Marp Jan, Ajahn Anan's monastery.

I have found this online guide from the The Dhammayut Order in the United States of America, with corresponding audio files
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... nting.html
http://www.forestmeditation.com/audio/audio.html


But I noticed that Ajahn Anan's monastery is not Dhammayut according to this site, so I hope the above links are good enough to at least get started off?

http://www.retreat-infos.de/Download/Re ... _Oct07.pdf
....Ajahn Anan Akincano is a disciple of Luang Por Chah,
whose main monastery (Wat Nong Pah Pong) is in the North-East. This tradition
traces its lineage back to Than Ajahn Mun (strict dhutanga-kammatthana tradition),
although technically it belongs to the Mahanikaya sect -- most of the other forest
monasteries belong to the Dhammayut sect
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:18 pm

Hi Fijinut,

fijiNut wrote:But I noticed that Ajahn Anan's monastery is not Dhammayut according to this site, so I hope the above links are good enough to at least get started off?


Probably. The verses that are chanted regularly are largely the same in both nikayas. The difference is that the Dhammayuttika Nikaya has one style of chanting that is used in all their monasteries, whereas the Mahanikaya has a variety of styles depending on the region and/or the preferences of the particular abbot. Also the Mahanikaya has a lot of additional chants that are not used in the Dhammayuttika Nikaya. The latter tends not to innovate and rarely uses any suttas or parittas except the ones selected by King Mongkut and Prince Vajirañāṇavarorasa.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby fijiNut » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:56 pm

Bhante,

Many thanks once again, you're truly a gem for this forum.
:anjali:

kind regards,
fijiNut
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby gavesako » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:34 am

fijiNut wrote:Thank you for your clarification Bhante.

Also, another question I wanted to ask is whether chanting for Dhammayut and Mahanikaya sects are different in wording (phrasing) in Thailand?
The reason why I asked is that I might want to visit Thailand at one point particularly Wat Marp Jan, Ajahn Anan's monastery.

I have found this online guide from the The Dhammayut Order in the United States of America, with corresponding audio files
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... nting.html
http://www.forestmeditation.com/audio/audio.html


But I noticed that Ajahn Anan's monastery is not Dhammayut according to this site, so I hope the above links are good enough to at least get started off?

http://www.retreat-infos.de/Download/Re ... _Oct07.pdf
....Ajahn Anan Akincano is a disciple of Luang Por Chah,
whose main monastery (Wat Nong Pah Pong) is in the North-East. This tradition
traces its lineage back to Than Ajahn Mun (strict dhutanga-kammatthana tradition),
although technically it belongs to the Mahanikaya sect -- most of the other forest
monasteries belong to the Dhammayut sect


Ajahn Anan's monastery does belong to the Ajahn Chah (Mahanikaya) lineage, but due to being located in central Thailand rather than Isaan, they also do some chants rarely heard in other Ajahn Chah monasteries, such as the Jinapanjara Gatha and the 7 Abhidhamma Books chant.

Here you will find some chants used by Ajahn Chah communities in the West:
http://www.ratanagiri.org.uk/chanting.htm
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
Dhammatube - Videos on Buddhist practice
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby fijiNut » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:41 am

Thank you for your help Bhante Gavesako!

Much gratitude and appreciation for the links.

As a lay person, I have only just recently discovered the benefits of chanting so I am keen to learn; not only does it leave the mind cool and calm, it also gives a deeper sense of appreciation of the Dhamma.
Indeed it is beautiful in the beginning, beautiful in the middle and beautiful in the end.

kind regards,
fijiNut
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby fijiNut » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:35 am

Well, since we are number 1 on google for the phrase "Yathā vārivahā pūrā" t

it is possible to hear this paritta chant and more streamed over the internet with corresponding pali text on the side here:
http://audio.buddhistdoor.com/eng/play/140

Do the venerable sirs at DhammaWheel have any recommendations on how to learn more chants and learn pali at the same time?
Any techniques or tips and tricks or skillful means?
There are several suttas and parittas as well as vandana that I find very meaningful and worth committing to memory.
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:35 am

Hi Fijinut,

fijiNut wrote:Any techniques or tips and tricks or skillful means?


You will be able to memorize things very fast using the attached memorizing tool.

Memorizing Tool.zip
(125.65 KiB) Downloaded 70 times


Instructions

1. Download the zip file and extract its contents.
2. Open the file named "Memorizing Tool" in your web browser.
3. When the page opens you will see two boxes. Type or paste the text you wish to memorize into the upper box.
4. Click on the button labelled "Convert".
5. The text will now appear in the lower box, but with each word truncated to just its first letter. For example, the contents of this post will look like this:

    Y w b a t m t v f u t a m t.

    I

    1. D t z f a e i c.
    2. O t f n "M T" i y w b.
    3. W t p o y w s t b. T o p t t y w t m i t u b.
    4. C o t b l "C".
    5. T t w n a i t l b, b w e w t t j i f l. F e, t c o t p w l l t:

6. Read aloud the text you wish to memorize three or four times, then delete it.
7. Then try to recite the text just relying on the first letters in the lower box.
8. When you can do so successfully, then try to recite the text without looking at either box.

That's all there is to it.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby fijiNut » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:16 am

Excellent ! Many thanks!
:anjali:

fijinut
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby chakravathy » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:29 pm

Dhammanando wrote:Hi Fijinut,

fijiNut wrote:Are chants reserved only for the Sangha or can a lay person chant too?


Laypeople can chant too.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu


Thank you Bhante.....at least your answer sounds practical....
I have asked 2 Thai Monks before about the above chant and they told me it's sort of reserved for the monks to chant it.....something like it belongs to monks....
When I asked an ex-Sri Lankan monk he told me nothing belongs to the monks except the 8 requisites....of cos lay people can chant it...

May Dhamma understanding arise in all beings....

May all beings be well and happy always....
There is blindness all around. Only very few can see, many are like birds trapped in a net, only few escape and achieve liberation.....Dhammapada....
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:03 pm

chakravathy wrote:I have asked 2 Thai Monks before about the above chant and they told me it's sort of reserved for the monks to chant it.....something like it belongs to monks....


There may be some regional differences in this matter.

I recall that in the village wats of Lamphun on uposatha days, at the end of the day the laypeople would give an envelope of cash to the senior villager who had led them in chanting, requesting the precepts, and other ceremonial stuff. He would then bless them by chanting the "yathā..." and the "sabbītiyo..." just like the monks.
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Question for monks -blessing chant - Yathā vārivahā pūrā

Postby chakravathy » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:25 am

Thats nice of the vilagers.....and on the part of the senior villager.....it's practical....returning good wishes...the Buddhist way....

Thank you Bhante.....Sadhu.....Sadhu.....Sadhu....

May all beings be well and happy always...
There is blindness all around. Only very few can see, many are like birds trapped in a net, only few escape and achieve liberation.....Dhammapada....
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