All religious faiths are attachments.

[Bothi]

Howdy,

In reality, all religious faiths are attachments, therefore according to 4NT all religions must be causes of sufferings.

What is your opinion on this issue ?

With respect all,

[David N. Snyder]

Not at all. Haven't you heard of the simile of The Raft?

The raft carries one to the other shore. Once there you don't need to carry the raft around with you wherever you go. But since we are still on this side, the Raft can be useful.

[Goofaholix]

In reality, all religious faiths are attachments, therefore according to 4NT all religions must be causes of sufferings.

What is your opinion on this issue ?

Yes you are right, religion can be and is a source of attachment and unsatifactoriness. However there are attachments that lead to more attachment and attachments that lead to the cessation of attachment, Buddhist practise when done correctly is the latter and as has been pointed out is like a raft to enable you to get to the other shore, once you are on the other shore you can discard attchment to the raft.

[reflection]

Don't agree.

Identification with faiths may lead to attachments, yes, but having faiths is not an attachment. Also, one could also argue whether Buddhism is a religion. Depends on your defenition of a religion, and your own practice, of course. I personally would say it is not.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

A wanderer once approached the Blessed One and stated his view, “All is displeasing to me.”

The Buddha replied, “Is this view of yours, 'All is displeasing to me,' also displeasing to you?”

Not all desires are unwholesome, and the fervent wish to achieve the end of craving is not something to be abandoned until the goal is attained.

However, it is true that attachment to views causes suffering — even attachment to right views.

[thaijeppe]

Of course you can call faith attachment, but then there are positive and negative attachment.
If we talk about Buddhism , when you start to study and practice, you need to have faith in what The Buddha taught,
because you can not be certain from the beginning.
During your practice you will then change your faith to knowledge, when you experince for yourself that what The Buddha taught is correct,
and in the end you can let go of your attachment (faith), because you have experinced it all for yourself.
If we look at the N8P the first truth is Right view, you can not start your practice with Right view, because you simply don't know, but in the beginning
Right view is simply Faith.

Jeppe

[ground]

Howdy,

In reality, all religious faiths are attachments, therefore according to 4NT all religions must be causes of sufferings.

What is your opinion on this issue ?

With respect all,

It is the other way round: suffering the the cause of faith as taught by the Buddha in SN12.23. And althought this referred specifically to the buddhist faith there is no reason why it should be different with other religious faiths.
It is just that the further results of buddhist faith may differ from those of other religious faiths.

Kind regards

[acinteyyo]

A wanderer once approached the Blessed One and stated his view, “All is displeasing to me.”

The Buddha replied, “Is this view of yours, 'All is displeasing to me,' also displeasing to you?”

Not all desires are unwholesome, and the fervent wish to achieve the end of craving is not something to be abandoned until the goal is attained.

However, it is true that attachment to views causes suffering — even attachment to right views.

[Bothi]

Not at all. Haven't you heard of the simile of The Raft?

The raft carries one to the other shore. Once there you don't need to carry the raft around with you wherever you go. But since we are still on this side, the Raft can be useful.

Haven't you heard there is no self. So raft is not available...All these are attachments. You are on the image of the raft. And unless you leave the image of raft, you are attached to the raft image...And never one can be on the other side. Other side can be reachable after the death...As nibbana or parinibbana...

Lets all be mindful,

[reflection]

Sorry, I would like to discuss, but don't understand what you are trying to say.

[David N. Snyder]

...And never one can be on the other side. Other side can be reachable after the death...As nibbana or parinibbana...

There is nibbana with remainder and nibbana without remainder.

Regarding the rest of your post about attachments, perhaps an analogy might help:

You build a house primarily using a hammer. The house is a collection of parts. It has no essence or substance, nothing permanent. The tool, the hammer was useful in building this house. After you finish building it, there is no need to carry this tool around with you around the house wherever you go. But that doesn't deny its usefulness.

[Bothi]

...And never one can be on the other side. Other side can be reachable after the death...As nibbana or parinibbana...

There is nibbana with remainder and nibbana without remainder.

Regarding the rest of your post about attachments, perhaps an analogy might help:

You build a house primarily using a hammer. The house is a collection of parts. It has no essence or substance, nothing permanent. The tool, the hammer was useful in building this house. After you finish building it, there is no need to carry this tool around with you around the house wherever you go. But that doesn't deny its usefulness.

Tools can be used only for materials...We are talking about not materials...That is if everything is impermanent , Buddhism has to be impermanent also,so same applies to nibbana...

If nothing is permanent, then who is gonna be in nibbana? If there is no essence, who is gonna be at the raft or in nibbana?

[santa100]

Bothi wrote:
"Tools can be used only for materials...We are talking about not materials...That is if everything is impermanent , Buddhism has to be impermanent also,so same applies to nibbana..."

For the phrase "everything is impermanent", make sure to understand the scope of the term "everything". It means "every conditioned phenomena". Nibbana is un-conditioned, it's total unbinding, thus it does not fall under the scope of those that are subjected to impermanence.

"If nothing is permanent, then who is gonna be in nibbana? If there is no essence, who is gonna be at the raft or in nibbana?"

Again, everything should be clear once you clearly see the scope of the word "nothing".

[Bothi]

Bothi wrote:
"Tools can be used only for materials...We are talking about not materials...That is if everything is impermanent , Buddhism has to be impermanent also,so same applies to nibbana..."

For the phrase "everything is impermanent", make sure to understand the scope of the term "everything". It means "every conditioned phenomena". Nibbana is un-conditioned, it's total unbinding, thus it does not fall under the scope of those that are subjected to impermanence.

"If nothing is permanent, then who is gonna be in nibbana? If there is no essence, who is gonna be at the raft or in nibbana?"

Again, everything should be clear once you clearly see the scope of the word "nothing".

Nibbana is empty, people are empty, so they are all the same, conditioned or unconditioned, these do not make any difference, İf all are empty, that means all are same...

Lets all be mindful,

[santa100]

Bothi wrote:
"Nibbana is empty, people are empty, so they are all the same, conditioned or unconditioned, these do not make any difference, İf all are empty, that means all are same...
"

At least on the conventional level, this doesn't make much sense, because it'd mean that everyone have already been enlightened and thus there's no need for training or practice..

[Dan74]

That's right. Emptiness is powerful medicine and if misused becomes poison.

First there is form and we have to learn to deal with it, don't we?

Dazed Dan in Istanbul

[porpoise]

You build a house primarily using a hammer.

I'm not going to let you do any building work in my house.