Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Are the two separate entities? Can you use meditation to help fuel your ambition?

I understand that meditation is supposed to help you discover what you WANT in life, and what direction you really want to pursue.

I started a similar thread titled "Meditation and University Studies" a little while back and got some great responses. This thread is a little different. I have noticed that I am not as ambitious as I once was, before I started meditation. I want to become a filmmaker, and I have a knack for it. After beginning meditation, I seem almost indifferent to filmmaking, along with my studies and many other aspects of life that were once important to me. I think completely differently sometimes - I take in the moment, and that's all I care about. Creative thoughts have been abated, with my focus on ONE thought at a time. I generally focus on what is in front of me - this has hindered my imagination, and my ambitious nature.

Has meditation blunted my thirst for greatness and utilizing all my talents? I understand that being "great" can be seen as vain, but why can't we dream? Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for your time,

Ashitaka21

Greetings Ashitaka,

With insight into the true nature of things (impermanence, not-self, suffering) that comes from vipassana meditation, the inclination to take up pursuits that are imbued with these characteristics may well diminish.

Generally speaking, ambition is a craving to become something and for things to be other than they are. On the other hand, the Buddhist path turns away from craving and becoming. Use your meditation practices to examine your ambition... see what these ambitious thoughts are rooted in. If they are rooted in greed, aversion or delusion, then they are unwholesome and will tend to unpleasant mental results. If they are rooted in generosity/renunciation, lovingkindness and wisdom then they are wholesome and will tend to positive mental results.

Metta,
Retro.

Ashitaka21 wrote:Can you use meditation to help fuel your ambition?

Not a good idea...if I were asked...

Why can't I aspire to be a great filmmaker? Is that so wrong? Is it conceited, is it vain? Look a David Lynch. He practices TM and still makes amazing films. I would say he at least has a little ambition still even after 30 years of meditating. I don't understand.

Ashitaka21

Ambition is craving and clinging


Craving and clinging will lead to Dukka



Metta

unless you are hoping to be a monk, then better think of livelihood as well - you cannot meditate when you are hungry

rowyourboat wrote:unless you are hoping to be a monk, then better think of livelihood as well - you cannot meditate when you are hungry

Doesnt have to be ambitous however, living to sustatin oneself can provide food without the greed of ambition



Metta

I do not understand. If I have dreams, I should just let go of them? That would be sad - my talents would be wasted. Why am I vested with such talents then? I want to be compassionate to others and practice loving kindness, but why can't this coexist with my ambition? It's almost as if meditation "brainwashes" you to become happy because you throw your talents away. What does that accomplish? Yes, you will be happy and nice to others, but you would never challenge yourself. I have much to learn, I know. I just don't understand why I can't utilize my talents?

Ashitaka21

Greetings Ashitaka21,

No one is saying you should "throw away" or reject anything.

The point is that with the increased mindfulness and wisdom that arises through Buddhist practice and mental development, your mind (of its own volition) will no longer cling to worldly dreams, goals and aspirations. When the mind realises that craving is suffering, the mind will no longer want to crave, just as you have no inclination to walk into an electric fence. The mind will seek peace and refuge from craving because it comes to see the danger in it.

Where you're at now, you do not apparently see the danger in ambition... the way it reinforces a sense of self (note how many times you use "I" and "my" in the above post), the way craving unsettles the mind, the way that unfilfilled dreams and ambition brings discontent, the way ambition entangles the mind in samsaric matters, the dissatisfaction that comes with the present moment not matching your utopia. No one can make you see these things if you do not see them for yourself... you may simply not be ready to "let them go", and so be it.

You are seeing a conflict here, but I would recommend not to focus too much on the perceived conflict, because the good news is it should resolve itself in due course. In the meantime, if you've not done so, further investigate the Buddha's teachings on anicca (impermanence) and anicca (not-self).

Metta,
Retro.

I will say how it is with me:

My "ambition" is to be the best person I could hope to be.
My ambition is to consciously and mindfully absorb the Four Noble Truths and accept them as absolute sacrosanct fact, to adhere devotedly to the Eightfold Path, and to keep and observe the Five precepts.
I know I am in the cycle of Samsara.
I strive to reach a time when I can leave it. I am coming to terms and to grips with the concept of Self-and Not-Self.... I am aware that I am simply a collection of impermanent aggregates, and I am daily more and more convinced of re-birth as a logical and understandable process.....
(Don't ask me to expound all this in a scholarly manner. I cannot, but I know within myself what I know, and I am learning and expanding as I go...

(Yes, plenty of "I" there.... )

If, during this progress, I diligently strive to achieve Right Intention, Right Mindfulness and Right Livelihood, it must naturally follow, and be logical, that what I do externally will reflect my inner striving.

So it doesn't matter if I am a successful film-maker, or a successful road-sweeper.
My focus of effort lies within me, not externally.
But it's reflected.

How could it not be?

Ashitaka21 wrote:I do not understand. If I have dreams, I should just let go of them? That would be sad - my talents would be wasted. Why am I vested with such talents then? I want to be compassionate to others and practice loving kindness, but why can't this coexist with my ambition? It's almost as if meditation "brainwashes" you to become happy because you throw your talents away. What does that accomplish? Yes, you will be happy and nice to others, but you would never challenge yourself. I have much to learn, I know. I just don't understand why I can't utilize my talents?

Ashitaka21

It seems your still clinging to a view of "I am" and then projecting this to the future of "I want to do this/be that"

It's almost as if meditation "brainwashes" you to become happy because you throw your talents away. What does that accomplish?

Meditation helps remove ignorance, greed and hatred. This includes removing a view of "I am" and so craving for "I want to be this" since this is a view of self which comes from ignorance. Ignorance will leads on to dukkha so all that happens is more suffering is created. It "accomplishes" (*i put that in brackets as you dont meditate to accomplish but to let go) a complete calm and peacful mind free of any pain, fear, anger and all the other unwholesome states that cause misery in a human life


Now im not telling you how it is or even what to do so please dont think that, this is for you to investigate yourself

My advice would be to truly investigate how clinging to anything (and so having the sense of I am) leads one to Dukkha (this includes goals and ambitions). Investigate how all of conditoned things are Anicca, which is why if they are clung to it will lead to dukkha and how because of this nothing is worth claiming as "mine" "I am" or "me" and so are Anatta


Metta

Hi, I’ve been trying to figure out the same thing lately, suffice to say, it’s not easy being a buddhist in entertainment industry. So far, the most important thing seems to be to figure out what is ambition - what mental factors are involved, how does it arise and what drives it – what kind of intention is behind it. In general terms – every action (mental, bodily or verbal) can be driven by intention that’s either unwholesome (rooted in greed, aversion and delusion), or wholesome (rooted in non-greed (generosity), non-aversion (kindness) and non-delusion (wisdom)).

In practical terms, this goes down to being aware of the intention in the present moment. Regardless of what’s the outward action at present – turning the camera on, rewriting a sentence in the script, preparing lunch for the crew, etc – the question is whether that current action is performed on the back of unwholesome or wholesome intention. That is, each action can be performed in either of these two ways - if based on an unwholesome intention at the moment, then I’m using my talents at that moment to my own detriment as well as to detriment of others. If however that same action is based on a wholesome intention, then at that moment I’m using my talents for benefit of others and myself.

So, it’s not that complicated after all, but it takes time and practice to be able to figure out whether the intention at present is actually wholesome or not (and in most cases it turns out to be unwholesome). Besides, in a single day, there will be countless moments and actions, and intentions behind them will keep changing from unwholesome, to wholesome, back to unwholesome, etc. So, that’s probably why mindfulness and watchfulness are advised so often.

Anyway, in the end, the question whether becoming a great filmmaker (or some other occupation) is right or wrong seems a bit pointless because being a filmmaker in practice consists of many small actions performed every day – and each of these has an intention behind it, and it’s the intention that will bring good or bad results in the end.

Best wishes

Do what you do and do it whole-heartedly.

Then forget about it.

If there is a mistake, correct it to the best of your ability.

Worrying about what "ambition" is or isn't, worrying about what "Buddhism" is or isn't, is not so much the point. Pay attention and take responsibility. Isn't that enough?

Just do what you do and do it whole-heartedly.

Then forget about it.

If there is a mistake, correct it to the best of your ability.

Hi, I’ve been trying to figure out the same thing lately, suffice to say, it’s not easy being a buddhist in entertainment industry. So far, the most important thing seems to be to figure out what is ambition - what mental factors are involved, how does it arise and what drives it – what kind of intention is behind it. In general terms – every action (mental, bodily or verbal) can be driven by intention that’s either unwholesome (rooted in greed, aversion and delusion), or wholesome (rooted in non-greed (generosity), non-aversion (kindness) and non-delusion (wisdom)).

In practical terms, this goes down to being aware of the intention in the present moment. Regardless of what’s the outward action at present – turning the camera on, rewriting a sentence in the script, preparing lunch for the crew, etc – the question is whether that current action is performed on the back of unwholesome or wholesome intention. That is, each action can be performed in either of these two ways - if based on an unwholesome intention at the moment, then I’m using my talents at that moment to my own detriment as well as to detriment of others. If however that same action is based on a wholesome intention, then at that moment I’m using my talents for benefit of others and myself.

So, it’s not that complicated after all, but it takes time and practice to be able to figure out whether the intention at present is actually wholesome or not (and in most cases it turns out to be unwholesome). Besides, in a single day, there will be countless moments and actions, and intentions behind them will keep changing from unwholesome, to wholesome, back to unwholesome, etc. So, that’s probably why mindfulness and watchfulness are advised so often.

Anyway, in the end, the question whether becoming a great filmmaker (or some other occupation) is right or wrong seems a bit pointless because being a filmmaker in practice consists of many small actions performed every day – and each of these has an intention behind it, and it’s the intention that will bring good or bad results in the end.

Ambition isnt evil or wrong, it can be wholesome but ambition is tied to a self view since its about wanting to "become" something or "be" someone

Metta

genkaku!

Hello Ashitaka,

I'm going to offer a contrarian viewpoint: Go for it.

My understanding of the Dhamma is that whatever stage we find ourselves at, there is an opportunity right there in that moment for greater wisdom. Ambition is a complex thing. Most of us, if we are not arahants, will have some degree of ambition. Ambition can be a mix of lots of different things, including (as you correctly point out) a desire to help others. Blended with that desire to help others, you might also find some selfishness mixed in (as Retro correctly points out).

But the point is not to kill the ambition that arises in this moment. That, according to my understanding, is contrary to Dhamma practice. Rather, the idea is to recognize amibition as it arises, identify its causes and conditions if you can, understand its nature, and in that very moment do the right thing to the best of your ability.

Sometimes the right thing to do might be this: to make a great film.

But another thing to bear in mind is that ambition (that blend of stuff that will arise whether you want it to or not) doesn't have to be fed. You don't have to identify "ambition" and try to force it to come, or strengthen it, or anything else. Just leave it be. Let it be.

That's the way it is with these kinds of mental phenomena. We have this incorrect notion that we are in complete control, that somehow "I" am ambitious, "I" am kind, "I" am angry, "I" am intelligent. That's all hogwash. None of that stuff is you. Each of those phenomena -- ambition, anger, kindness -- has its causes and conditions. Each will come up of its own accord based on past and present kamma. You don't have full control of any of that stuff. But, with wisdom, you have some control over what you do in this moment no matter what mental condition happens to arise.

Forget about what you think "meditation" might or might not accomplish. It's impossible to separate out meditation from all the other stuff that you do the rest of the time, like right speech, right livelihood, right effort, etc. If you really want to meditate effectively, then knock off the booze, treat everyone as if you love them, be kind to yourself, bath, smile, and so on. In other words, don't isolate meditation and put it on some kind of pedestal. Do meditate. Don't worry about it.

Ashitaka, I'm no teacher, and I'm not even a very good meditator. But I do know you will get a lot better advice if you go to a teacher you trust and share your practice struggles with him or her.

Regardless, be encouraged. Do your best in each moment, applying whatever wisdom you can. It will work out.

Metta