YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha) - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Akuma
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:56 pm
Location: NRW, Germany

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Akuma » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:02 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:16 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:38 am


vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby vinasp » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:46 am

Hi everyone,

The DO link before "contact" is called "ignorance" in several discourses.

One example is SN 22.81 the Parileyya Sutta:

[Last two sections.]

"Or he doesn't assume form to be the self... but he may have a view such as this: 'This self is the same as the cosmos. This I will be after death, constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change.' This eternalist view is a fabrication... Or... he may have a view such as this: 'I would not be, neither would there be what is mine. I will not be, neither will there be what is mine.' This annihilationist view is a fabrication... Or... he may be doubtful & uncertain, having come to no conclusion with regard to the true Dhamma. That doubt, uncertainty, & coming-to-no-conclusion is a fabrication.

"What is the cause, what is the origination, what is the birth, what is the coming-into-existence of that fabrication? To an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person, touched by what is felt born of contact with ignorance, craving arises. That fabrication is born of that. And that fabrication is inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen. That craving... That feeling... That contact... That ignorance is inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen. It is by knowing & seeing in this way that one without delay puts an end to the effluents."

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Regards, Vincent.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:55 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:56 am


vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby vinasp » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:05 am

Hi everyone,

In the DO formula, if the first link, "ignorance" ceases, then all the other
links will cease.

If the link called "six-spheres" is also ignorance, then if it ceases all the
following links will cease, but the first four links will remain.

These first four links are the five aggregates and the "residue".

Regards, Vincent.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:09 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:20 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:32 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:34 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:39 am

Greetings Tilt,

I didn't say you had.

Mike was just packaging my reference to your words as if they were originally mine. So, if he was going to suggest that "the following could be mistakenly interpreted as attributing a thingness to the khandhas" he should take that up with you, not me.

That's all. It's not my discussion to have.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1885
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:44 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:23 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:22 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:39 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:52 pm


vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby vinasp » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:46 pm

Hi Tilt,

SN 22.81 said: 'This self is the same as the cosmos."

Tilt said: "Just as an aside, that certainly is a Upanishadic notion."

Very interesting! Thanks for pointing this out, I had not noticed it.

[ Pali: so attaa so loko.]

Is this the only place in the entire five nikaya's where this view is
described?

Regards, Vincent.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:56 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:10 am



Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kim OHara and 34 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine