Inwardly and outwardly?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:18 am

"Balance" inwardly and outwardly with regard to body in mind, or me and others, or my actions and other actions, my world our world... is an often found argument.

Do we understand what is meant by inwardly and outwardly?

What are your thoughts?
What are the Suttas this "wellknown argument" is from?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:21 am

Greetings Hanzze,

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.
Would you kindly explain what you mean?
Many thanks!

Ben
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tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:38 am

More the dhamma is complicate, more the dhamma is conditioned, more the dhamma is disbalanced, more te dhamma is fragile, impermanent, suffering
So we must turn to the simplicity.

What is the most simple in rupe? - Breath
What is the most simple in citta? - Contemplation

Contemplation of breath - is the heart of balance between extarnal and internal. The Essencial practice to discover the non-duality, the equanimity of harmony.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:42 am

Ben wrote:Greetings Hanzze,

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.
Would you kindly explain what you mean?
Many thanks!

Ben


For expample, if one rebukes to focus on own actions on own behaviour many would argue: "The Buddha taught us to care about the inside and the outside." (often found in "Engaged" Buddhism for example)

It seems to come from this mystical "Inwardly and outwardly" and I wonder if we (I) understand what it means.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby befriend » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:15 pm

i dont know maybe it means looking at trees and cars as opposed to looking inwards like sensations and the mind. i dont know.
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby santa100 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:22 pm

Inward/Outward exist because the "I" exists. When there's no longer "I", "mine", or "myself", Inward/Outward will dissolve themselves. However, in order to completely eradicate this "I", both Inward and Outward trainings will need to be practiced: Inward means observing the precepts, meditation, and insight contemplation; Outward means wholesome mind, body action, and speech for the benefits of others..
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby equilibrium » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:53 pm

They are simply views.
Views comes from the body and mind.
There are no views in Buddhism.

MN 19.....Two Sorts of Thinking.
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:23 am

santa100 wrote:Inward means observing the precepts, meditation, and insight contemplation; Outward means wholesome mind, body action, and speech for the benefits of others..

Can you explain that more in detail. What is the different between "body action, and speech" and "the precepts" for example?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:26 am

equilibrium wrote:Views comes from the body and mind.

From body and/or mind or from body in relation to mind or from mind in relation to body or sometimes from body and sometimes form mind?

There are no views in Buddhism.

So its the path dullness, blindness? Or did you talk more about the aims of this path? To be dull?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby santa100 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:54 am

Hanzze wrote:
"Can you explain that more in detail. What is the different between "body action, and speech" and "the precepts" for example?"

They're all related in the sense that one simply cannot have wholesome body, mind, and speech toward others if one does not observe the precepts for oneself. However, I separate them out into Inward/observing precept to emphasize the cultivation/development to benefit oneself, while Outward/wholesome actions to emphasize the cultivation/development to benefit others. They are both important practices..
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:13 am

What does benefit others mean and why is that importand in regard of yourself?

It seems a little as if inward means "I" and outward "you" (others) in your statements, is that right?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby equilibrium » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:45 am

Hanzze wrote:
equilibrium wrote:Views comes from the body and mind.

From body and/or mind or from body in relation to mind or from mind in relation to body or sometimes from body and sometimes form mind?

There are no views in Buddhism.

So its the path dullness, blindness? Or did you talk more about the aims of this path? To be dull?

Body is part of mind.....mind is part of body.
Body cannot operate without the mind.....mind cannot operate without the body.
Two sides of the same coin.

The path has a purpose.....to allow one to see clearly.

The answer lies by looking within and not outwards.
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:57 am

The answer lies by looking within and not outwards.

Does that mean that mind is inwardly and body outwardly?

And, is there no use of "looking"/observing outwardly if that is meant by Inwardly and outwardly?

mind cannot operate without the body

I am not sure, can you explain that more in detail?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby santa100 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:06 pm

Hanzze wrote:
"What does benefit others mean and why is that importand in regard of yourself?

It seems a little as if inward means "I" and outward "you" (others) in your statements, is that right?"

For the first question, you should already knew the answer.

For the second question, as stated in my post, "I" and "you" aren't my goal, but for now, yes, I'll need to clearly define the scope to help my practice so that in a far distant future I'll no longer have to..
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby equilibrium » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:29 pm

Only the mind has the ability to look inwards, the body cannot.
The mind itself cannot express, the body does.
Hence mind inwardly.....body outwardly.

Can a mind be seperated from a body to operate alone?
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:59 pm

equilibrium wrote:Can a mind be seperated from a body to operate alone?


Without the ground there is no waves.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:57 pm

santa100 wrote:Hanzze wrote:
"What does benefit others mean and why is that importand in regard of yourself?

It seems a little as if inward means "I" and outward "you" (others) in your statements, is that right?"

For the first question, you should already knew the answer.

For the second question, as stated in my post, "I" and "you" aren't my goal, but for now, yes, I'll need to clearly define the scope to help my practice so that in a far distant future I'll no longer have to..

So your work is (or our work should be) an outwardly to get inwardly benefit?

"For the first question, you should already knew the answer." I am not sure. So what does benefit others mean and why is that importand in regard of yourself?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:03 am

equilibrium wrote:Only the mind has the ability to look inwards, the body cannot.

Where does it look into? And the same question in regard of "Can a mind be seperated from a body to operate alone?"

The mind itself cannot express, the body does.

What does express mean for you. Thinking that the body is what is meant outwardly, expressing to the inward?

Hence mind inwardly.....body outwardly.

That hence seems to me to quick in regard or "Can a mind be seperated from a body to operate alone?"

Can a mind be seperated from a body to operate alone?

I am not sure what is meant by mind, but thinking on the formless realm it seems that there are such phenomenas. Would there be still inwardly and outwardly?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby santa100 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:42 am

Hanzze wrote:
"So your work is (or our work should be) an outwardly to get inwardly benefit?

"For the first question, you should already knew the answer." I am not sure. So what does benefit others mean and why is that importand in regard of yourself?"

For your first question, you tell me, why would putting an end to the "I" an "inwardly" benefit?

For your second question, again, please re-read my post for I have clearly provided the answer. By the way, answer my question above and you'll have the answer to your second question..
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Re: Inwardly and outwardly?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:06 am

Difficult Santa, as I am not able to catch what is meant by inwardly and outwardly as it maybe should be caught, not to think of your personal perception of inwardly and outwardly. I guess we stuck in our flow of conversation (level of equal conncentration) and at such a point its better to begin a new.

Maybe you like to start anew with what is meant with it or what is meant by you.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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