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sutta reference for sankhara as mental states - Dhamma Wheel

sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

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Abandon
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sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Abandon » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:33 pm

Hi, I am trying to write my thesis.

I have come to the definitions of sankhara, one of which is 'mental states' (and other translations) specifically in the 5 khandha.

Is there any sutta reference defining sankhara specifically in the 5 khandha? I can't find one.

Note I'm not looking for definitions of sankhara in other contexts such as the 3 characteristics or 3 kinds of sankhara.

It appears to me, not finding a definition of sankhara in the context of the 5 khandhas, that the idea of the meaning 'mental states' is here purely based on the Visuddhimagga.

Thanks.

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daverupa
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:49 pm

The five aggregates function together across each of the six senses, so saying that any aggregate must be either mental or physical misunderstands it. No matter which sense is operating, the five aggregates are operating, whether the mind or the nose (consider that rupa, the 'physical' aggregate, arises in cases of intellect-idea-consciousness, the sixth sense sphere).

As I understand it, sankhara is, in this sense, a compilation of intent with respect to any given input. One cite for this is .

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Abandon
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Abandon » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:17 am

Excellent thanks. An interesting, if unusual take on khandhas.

Specifically though, is there any sutta that defines sankhara khandha as being mental states? That would seem to be the standard definition used, yet I can't seem to find a single sutta (not commentary) that supports it.

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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Sylvester » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:34 am


theY
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby theY » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:16 am

Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

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daverupa
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby daverupa » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:17 am


theY
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby theY » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:34 pm

^

See hardcore way-- item (j), (x), (y), (l).

I cut another leave only 4 nikayas.

But best method is memorize 4 nikayas and analysis them follow to sariputta school's subjects.

They disperse in many suttas.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Dmytro » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:52 pm

Hi Abandon.

Fifth khandha is 'volition' - see viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5909


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daverupa
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:15 am


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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Dmytro » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:57 am



Sylvester
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Sylvester » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:26 am


santa100
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby santa100 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:09 pm


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Abandon
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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Abandon » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:44 am

all interesting views for sure.

But I want to ask, specifically, in regards to common definitions like "the mental-formation group (sankhāra-kkhandha)"

The only reference I can find to such is the Visuddhimagga. I want to know if there are any suttas you know of that define sa.nkhaara as mental states.

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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby Dmytro » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:47 am



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Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby theY » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:33 am

Don't have direct declaration that you want, because commentary didn't quote that anywhere.

Read commentary to find out what you want. Then hard consider it's quoted suttas to find difference between saṅkhāra words from each sutta. That only the way you can get what you want, because commentary will categorize word meaning by each sutta's context.

Guide:

2 types of saṅkhāra found in tipitaka.
(Saṅkhatamabhisaṅkharontīti saṅkhārā, avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā, saṅkhārasaddena āgatasaṅkhārā)

Or we can categorize it to 5 types by meaning of each suttas, or comment of commentory, too.
(Saṅkhatasaṅkhāro, abhisaṅkhatasaṅkhāro, abhisaṅkharaṇasaṅkhāro, payogābhisaṅkhāro, anekasaṅkhārā )

1.‘‘aniccā vata saṅkhārā’’tiādīsu (dī. ni. 2.221, 272; saṃ. ni. 1.186; 2.143) vuttā sabbepi sappaccayā dhammā ‘saṅkhatasaṅkhārā’ nāma.

2.Kammanibbattā tebhūmakā rūpārūpadhammā ‘abhisaṅkhatasaṅkhārā’ti aṭṭhakathāsu vuttā. Tepi ‘‘aniccā vata saṅkhārā’’ti ettheva saṅgahaṃ gacchanti. Visuṃ pana nesaṃ āgataṭṭhānaṃ na paññāyati.

3.Tebhūmakakusalākusalacetanā pana ‘abhisaṅkharaṇakasaṅkhāro’ti vuccati. Tassa ‘‘avijjāgatoyaṃ, bhikkhave, purisapuggalo puññañce abhisaṅkharotī’’tiādīsu (saṃ. ni. 2.51) āgataṭṭhānaṃ paññāyati.

4.Kāyikacetasikaṃ pana vīriyaṃ ‘payogābhisaṅkhāro’ti vuccati. So ‘‘yāvatikā abhisaṅkhārassa gati, tāvatikaṃ gantvā akkhāhataṃ maññe aṭṭhāsī’’tiādīsu (a. ni. 3.15) āgato.

5.Na kevalañca eteyeva, aññepi ‘‘saññāvedayitanirodhaṃ samāpajjantassa kho, āvuso visākha, bhikkhuno paṭhamaṃ nirujjhati vacīsaṅkhāro, tato kāyasaṅkhāro, tato cittasaṅkhāro’’tiādinā (ma. ni. 1.464) nayena saṅkhārasaddena āgatā anekasaṅkhārā.

Tesu natthi so saṅkhāro, yo saṅkhatasaṅkhāre saṅgahaṃ na gaccheyya.

http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/abh02 ... ml#para225
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.

santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: sutta reference for sankhara as mental states

Postby santa100 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:25 pm



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